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Thread: 9/7 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #1
    The race is back! John's Avatar
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    9/7 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Please keep all discussion about tonight's show in this thread only until 1am eastern time.

    Thanks, and enjoy the show!

    For those new to our reality show discussions, we do this in respect for our west coast viewers, who won't have finished seeing the show until 1am on the east coast. This way, they can continue to read the rest of the site, and even this forum, as long as they stay away from this particular thread. We will lock down the rest of our forum during this time frame, to help keep everyone honest.

  2. #2
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    So nobody watched it, huh?

    I taped and am watching now. Even from the first frame it's derivate of Stallone's show--WHICH HASN'T EVEN COME ON YET! The theme music? This is SO rich. The Theme music is "Eye of The Tiger." I kind you not.

    And if you've seen the advance promo for The Contender you know that part of the schtick is that each boxer is being cast as a character type with a huge title card and an accompanying sob/redemption/heroic story based around that title. So guess what? This show opens with an almost IDENTICAL sequence to what's been in the publlically available Contender promo for MONTHS, but with this cast.

    And De La Hoya? Can't talk for @hit. Call him mush mouth.

    $750K is a decent reality show prize, and actually not a bad boxing purse for a relative beginner.

    Oh, look. It's "the Ex-Con". The first in the Hall of Characters. Followed oddly enough by "the Prison Guard". No, really. We really don't get to know them at this point though--its just a flash of each of them.

    Lou Duba and Tommy Brooks (trainers/corner-men they recruited) ARE actual legends. The show has got that going for them.

    The rules seem to be that they have competitions of sorts and then at the end of each week the lowest ranked person has to fight. He gets to pick someone who is among the top three ranked people. This would seem to create an "underdog" formula, which is of course good drama.

    From what I've heard about The Contender they will be using a pretty damn similar formula. Only they came up with it first.

    The first fight apparently has a 25K purse. It's not clear if the 750K mentioned earlier includes the amounts of these earlier fights or if its a purse JUST for the final fight. Also, if I'm understanding this right, it seems like the guy from the botton CAN'T win the purse--he's only fighting for Survival (and otherwise for free), whereas the top guy can get the cash if he wins (but DOES leave if he loses).

    We meet a guy name David, who goes on and on about being "the White guy", and he expects not to be taken seriously because of this. Gee, it couldn't be because he's harping on this so much? In fact, it's probably funnier if we forget his name and just call him "the White guy" from now on. He also complains about his disadvantage in being rich, because those other guys have more experience fighting because on the mean streets you have to fight to live. Blah blah blah etc. Also, apparently only White guys read in his world.

    R.C. is a dude who boxes for his family. That's about all we know.

    By the way, the girlfriends/wives/brothers/fathers/human plot devices are called "confidants". Apparently having all these fighters isn't confusing enough--we need TWICE as many people hanging around. And as the guys show up for the first competition, the confidants are all there to watch.

    David's wife, PJ, comes on screen and talks about how the 25K purse for round 1's fight will motivate the hell out of him. Remember, he's the guy hung up on how the others are all from the ghetto, but not him.

    Some old guy (okay,it's Lou Duba, but he looks REALLY REALLY old in this shot) informs us that THIS comp is to test their upper body stregnth and is worth 10K all by itself. Yikes. Money is just FLOWING on this show--gotta admit it. Tommy Brooks continues on and reveals that they have to do 90 seconds of reverse situps and the one who does the most wins. Now if you don't know what a reverse situp is? Just think... OUCH. You hang upside down like a dead cow on a meathook and have to lift your WHOLE body to touch some buttons by your toes. Over and over and over and over and over again.
    Last edited by Krom; 09-07-2004 at 11:49 PM.

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

  3. #3
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Damn it looks like those reverse situps hurt. There are only four meathook things, so they go in rounds. They actually have to PUNCH the buttons at the top too.

    Some guy named Otis, who I don't think we've had time to meet, wins the first round--who if I heard it right seemed to do 18 of these tortureous bends in 90 seconds.

    Dumbasss White guy wins the second round and in fact seemed to beat Otis' score by a LOT. It sounds like mushmouth Tommy Brooks says "47" for him, but looking back at everyone else it MUST have been "27" since they later say he tied with Paul.

    Third round. Some guy gets 27 and another 30. The guy with 30 (Jimmy) is penalized for 10 though, because they call those 10 "assisted", whatever that means in this case (oh, I see, he held onto his knee with his boxing glove--did I mention they wear boxing gloves during all of this?) The guy with 27 (Paul) wins.

    A guy name Rene complains in interview about Jimmy and calls him a cheater.

    Paul and White Guy have a tie, and a faceoff. Paul has 24 and White Guy has 25.

    White Guy is now 10K richer, minus the IRS take. In real boxing, a promoter would get 95% of that (although he'd hardly be doing a reverse situp competition in real boxing, but never mind).

    Next, PJ... Mrs. White Guy, whines to the camera about how none of the others congratulated them when White guy hubby Dave won. Some other woman complains about how PJ is a money grubbing bitch. And what she actually says isn't ALL that far from that.

    The two old trainers take off to rank all of the other boxers, based on a combo of how they did today and some other vague things that happened in their training that we didn't see. White guy is automatically #1 though.

    Next we see the boxers roll up a garage door type thing and enter a loft where they (gasp!) must live together. Color me surprised. The place looks like a combination of an Army barracks, a POW camp, and a random set from a Rocky movie.

    Three of the guys (Mike, RC and Luis) are all from Miami and know each other. So they form some kind of Miami alliance.

    White guy is shown next in a community shower space, and then in interview whining (do we sense a theme here with him and wifey) about the absense of a jacuzzi in their little prison space.

    Next, we are shown Oscar, Tommy and Lou arguing over rankings. Tommy declares that stuff like "heart" and "character" have to be part of the ranking. Oscar brings up the fact that Jimmy appears to have cheated. Lou actually defends Jimmy with vague reasons about him being a guy to watch. Then we get a progression of mumbo-jumbo about each boxer in turn, with Oscar opining a lot about "heart" and "wanting it". At one point, old school guy Lou calls one of the guys an "at-leet", with that exact pronunciation.

    Okay, as we all know FOX clones EVERYTHING. Wife Swap, The Contender, Extreme Makeover, Extreme Makeover: Home Edition. So it's especially appropriate we get a commercial for the latest clone to come--a combination of The Amazing Race and The Apprentice called "Rebel Billionaire", hosted by rich wacko Richard Branson. Soon copying other shows right here on FOX! And now back to THIS copycat show and the rankings...

    1.) Pareja (Dave, the White guy) -- who spends time informing us in interview how superior he is
    2.) Griffin (Otis) -- intercut Dave saying in interview that "big, black and ugly" guys can't always fight
    3.) Vallejo (Mike)
    Any of these three can be picked by the bottom guy to fight and CAN win the 25K purse
    4.) Scianna (whoever he is)
    5.) Bachemann (Fred) -- who is JUST as white as Dave, the White guy, (if not more) but doesn't harp on it. Pity we've not managed to meet him before now.
    6.) Zaragoza - another who is this? The show has spent time on like 3 guys at the expense of all the rest.
    7.) Armijo - who?
    8.) Elmahmoud - who?
    9.) Corps - uh... who?
    10.) Alonzo (Lawrence)

    Last two -- Jimmy and RC. Tommy yells at RC for his 'tude and accuses him of thinking he's "a bag of chips and all that". He adds that he knows amatuers who could pound the crap out of RC. Then Jimmy get reamed badly for his cheating. Tommy gets REALLY angry and implies that Jimmy might be capable of anything--even hitting a man in the {BEEEEEEEEP}. Yup, the {BEEEEEEEEP}. But in the end... RJ was seen as the one who needs to fight for Survival.

    11.) Mince (Jimmy the Cheater)
    12.) Reyes (RC)

    We get a flashback (it's in black and white!) a half hour to a speech I didn't mention where Lou bellows at the group about how he's spend a career finding talent and also chasing away imposters. We see RC shaking his head after the imposters line in the flashback.

    Back in color, RC realizes he's got to pick between Dave, Otis and Mike (or the last option is apparently to not fight at all). RC talks to his brother, and actually considers not fighting. Then we see more of White guy and his b@tch wife. B@tch is excited that white guy can make some more dough, but Dave thinks it would be a bad idea for RC to pick a superior and incredibly skilled fighter like himself (yes, that's pretty much what he says). Meanwhile, Otis and his girl talk about how he'd flatten RC, and then we return to RC and his bro. #3 Mike seems like the easiest person to pick, they think. Now remember that earlier we learned that Mike, RC and Luis are all old buds. This is interesting, because it means that RC must know what kind of fighter Mike is. But it also means he can choose to gift his buddy with 25K if he's gonna lose anyway. The show doesn't say this, but it's obvious. What the show DOES tell us is that neither buddy looks forward to punching on HIS buddy. Mike's teary girlfriend reminds us again that RC knows how Mike fights, so it might benefit him to pick him. This is actually the most effective part of the show dramatically.

    No doubt at the direction of the producers RC does a fake out and tells us first who he DIDN'T choose--Otis. Then he goes on about how Mike is his man. But we go to commerical before we learn if that means he's his MAN.

    Post-commercial. No, he's not his MAN. And apparently "friendship is stronger than money" is supposed to be the lesson, because both the girlfriend, Mike and the crowd in general look delighted at the fact that Mike wasn't picked--despite the lost opportunity at 25K. RC makes a big speech to Mike about how if he's going to get his ass kicked, it might as well be by the top guy.

    In interview White guy says some stupid jerky stuff I'm not even gonna elaborate on. In short though he accused RC of trying to make him feel guilty or something. It ain't really clear, but it sure sounds insensitive.

    Time for another black and white flashback. We see Tommy, RC and the disheartening "bag of chips" comment, while serious music plays. Boo hoo! Arturo (that's RC's bro) interviews and basically calls his brother a both self-doubter and a "softee"--who's a boxer who doesn't want to hurt anyone.

    PJ and David smarm up another scene with lots of talk that's repetitive of other scenes. Blah blah PJ needs money. Blah blah David can beat them all with one hand tied behind his back.
    Last edited by Krom; 09-08-2004 at 01:07 AM.

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

  4. #4
    Lost Person ConfusedONE's Avatar
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    It wasn't that bad. I like the irony that "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor was used. While "Contender" was made by the guy who created "Survivor"

  5. #5
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConfusedONE
    It wasn't that bad. I like the irony that "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor was used. While "Contender" was made by the guy who created "Survivor"
    I thought the irony was that "Eye of The Tiger" was the theme song of the biggest hit of ALL of the Rocky movies--Rocky III. And Rocky (Sly Stallone) is the HOST of "The Contender".

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

  6. #6
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Now we get "Eye of the Tiger" music again. And arrogant VOs from White guy and "I have to be brave" stuff from RC.

    Oscar appears for like... five seconds... and talks to each fighter in the locker rooms. Or maybe just White guy David. It's hard to tell the way it's cut.

    PJ distracts her man with lots of assy talk. And we enter the ring to the sound of a ring announcer. Then in another VO David informs us of how "The Mexicans and the Black guy will be voting for RC in hopes that he will beat me". Bleech. Ass.

    Now the fight. Finally. But first a commercial.

    We find out almost immediately that the fight is only 4 rounds. Now that's peanuts in fight terms.

    Round 1: RC throws a LOT of punches. He lands a lot, but in a real fight (with like... 9 rounds or more) this would be HORRIBLE strategy, because you'd tire out. He moves fast compared to David, but David does seem to hit harder. RC definitely wins the round though.

    Hee. A hot blonde round card girl! Woooooo!

    Round 2: RC has the crowd (the other fighters and the confidants--although they try and pretend others are there) behind him. He quickly gets David against the ropes. Soon after he lands a VISIOUS uppercut right across David's jaw. A REALLY REALLY hard shot. Then again, Dave outweighs RC and is something of a tank--taking a lot of shots and not really looking hurt. But this is a four round fight, not an endurance contest. But let me point out that RC has pretty bad technique (and just as I type this the fight announcer says almost the same words)--he's just dominating because David is fighting like he's in a long fight and not a short-round exhibition. But again, RC wins a round for sure.

    Hot round card girl. Meow. Nice shiny bikini.

    Round 3: David comes out and hits a lot. And yes, with a lot more technique than RC. Soild body blows and not just wild shots like most of RCs so far. RC seems to get slaughtered this round.

    Mmmm. Card girl. It's the same girl every round, but so what?

    Round 4: To me it seems like a VERY even round. RC dominates the middle of the round and David the end. The commentators seem to think David won it.

    JUDGES say:

    Unanimous decision among the judges for is everyone's favorite arrogant White guy, David. The audience claps politely, while Mrs. White Guy looks like she's won the lottery (or at least 25K).

    RC does a ritual where he hangs his gloves up on a hook (among hooks for all the eventual losers) and walks off with his bro.

    NEXT WEEK:

    Dave becomes an even bigger ass. Someone (a woman maybe?) is an "even bigger threat" than him. Someone leaves the NEXT fight in an ambulance!

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

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    I am wondering if perhaps the "unanimous decision" is a result of some rule that we didn't hear about - namely, that if the fight is scored 2 rounds to 2 (I guess that would be 38-38, using standard boxing scoring methods, would it not?), the "champion"/"higher ranked fighter" is automatically given the nod. It seems unfathomable to me that all the judges would have given at least 3 rounds to the white guy (would would have had to be the case for him to win "unanimously" unless he was also given the edge on ties).

    T.

  8. #8
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    If they were each given two rounds outright, wouldn't the decision be based on the score differentials? A unanimous decision really isn't that rare. Then again, 4 rounds is kind of a strange number of rounds for a fight, isn't it?

    Really before I forgot to say... I like the show. It's cheesy. It's filled with some assy people. It's a FOX rip-off (I mean.... EVERY damn detail you've heard about Stallone's show is here) and I hate it for that. De La Hoya can't speak very well. "Eye of the Tiger" was over the top.

    But I like boxing. And in general I like Sports Drama and Storytelling. And I love those old cliched boxing corner-men, even if they mumble a lot and say a lot of nonsense.

    I'm 1000% sure that Stallone's show will kick this one to the curb, quality-wise. And frankly, as far as I can see EVERY show FOX has photcopied this year is less than the original either was or has been reported to be. But even that lesser version is still watchable--in a lot of ways FOR the FOX cheesy deliciousness.

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

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    Standard boxing scoring, though, has the judge scoring the round 10-9 in favor of whichever fighter they believe won the round - it isn't scored arbitrarily. Generally, the score changes from that only if there are penalties called by the referee, or if there are things like knockdowns. If there are no knockouts or penalties (and we didn't see any), all four rounds should have been 10-9, just in favor of different fighters.

    On another note (and man did this show get hammered in the ratings), does it seem to anyone else that there is absolutely no good in being in the top 3? Sure, if you fight the elimination bout you win $25,000, but let's face it - that would be like being the decoy in Big Brother. Far better, IMO, to be in the middle (neither the top 3 nor the bottom 3), so that you don't have to fight in the elimination bout at all, and then you get additional training (until the new rankings) AND you'll be fresher and not injured at all if you do have to fight.

    T.

  10. #10
    FORT Fogey did_it_again's Avatar
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    Cool recap. I feel asleep like a little baby ,but I'll catch it on Tivo. Looks like one of my final four picks won,but it seems he's not all that well liked. I wonder if I'll dislike him to.

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