MTV's 16 and Pregnant

[Giggity22]

This episode shows that adoption isn't always the best option. Lori's parents are adoptive parents. They have done something really terrible to their daughter. It is a great option at times but it doesn't always turn out well. I cannot say that adoption was the right decision in this case. I cannot say if it was the wrong decision either. I am certain that the way these parents went about it was horrible.

So the fact that they took this child in from a 16 year old mother who didnt want her and raised her and gave her a great life goes out the window because they made a hard decision for her? Their tactics might not have been the best, but you also dont know what went on before the MTV cameras got there. She seemed pretty hell bent on keeping the child from the start. Whos to say that if they do tell her she cant keep it despite wanting to that she wont run back to Cory to do it again? Maybe this was their way of getting her to come to the decision on her own to prevent something like that.
Lori looked to have a pretty nice life living in a huge house with parents that cared for her. Im sure the 16 year old that wanted nothing to do with her would have provided the same great life that these 'abusive' horrible adoptive parents gave her.

[RealityLovesMe]

I absolutley did not see abusive parents in this episode- I saw parents who were trying to do their best. But it doesn't really matter in the end, because you already stated no matter how they did it they would be wrong. You believe the only right choice is one in which the girl has the last say. I don't understrand that reasoning as the girl won't be raising the child, anyhow- w/o their parents each of these girls would be homeless, which means their children would be, as well. These girls are placing most of the responsibility for raising the child on their parents-their parents arer feeding, clothing and babysitting the child, not to mention putting a roof over the babies head-something a sixteen year old can't do. The financial strain could have terrible consequences. So, no, it shouldn't be up to the girl, the decison must include those who will be responsible for both mother and child.

That isn't what I said. I said the opposite. That I wouldn't say what is the right decision (I don't think anyone has the right to say if someone should put a kid up for adoption or not) but that the way they went about forcing and manipulating their daughter to give up her child was wrong.
I don't think I understand your logic either. The mother and father should make this decision. The "grandparents" really don't have a say. Of course they can have an opinion but legally it is not their decision. I don't think we will see eye to on that. I am a firm believer in the rights of young women.

Edit: Yes, giggity. I think they treated their daughter in a way that is damaging. And I don't think that acting that way is evidence of good parenting. I don't think they demonstrated any behavior that would make me think that they have been good parents. I cannot say that I am convinced that her birth mother wouldn't have done a better job if she wanted to. They put a roof over her head and that is all. I try my hardest not to judge people so I will stop short of calling them bad parents. All I can say is that they have not convinced me that they are decent people.

[tears.and.rain]

I don't think this is a women's rights issue. Are you sure that they have no say legally? After all, she was under 18, so technically they're still in charge. I don't think that adoption should be forced on anyone but I don't think these parents did anything abusive. I think they were trying their best to be good parents, and to handle a scary, difficult situation.

[RealityLovesMe]

I don't think anyone called these parents abusive. I wonder why everyone keeps saying they don't think the parents are abusive when nobody ever made that claim in the first place.

I don't think this is a women's rights issue. Are you sure that they have no say legally? After all, she was under 18, so technically they're still in charge. I don't think that adoption should be forced on anyone but I don't think these parents did anything abusive. I think they were trying their best to be good parents, and to handle a scary, difficult situation.

Well, I don't know the law in all 50 states but they do not have a say. I think they might have to be notified in some states but they have no legal say. Their opinion doesn't count for anything.

[ClosetRTWatcher]

I don't think I understand your logic either. The mother and father should make this decision. The "grandparents" really don't have a say. Of course they can have an opinion but legally it is not their decision. I don't think we will see eye to on that. I am a firm believer in the rights of young women.

I don't agree with this at all. Her parents would have been forced to take on a huge responsibility if she had kept that baby, so IMO they should absolutely have a say. Her adoptive parents struck me as good people who cared about their daughter. They know her FAR better than any of us do, so I think their opinion regarding whether or not she could handle raising a baby should hold a lot of weight. Furthermore, the girl and the baby's father couldn't stick to a decision for more than 5 minutes without changing their minds. The girl's strongest argument for keeping the baby was that "it's a blood relative". IMO, that just isn't a good enough reason. I think they all made the best decision for that child when they gave him to a stable adoptive family.

[redsox girl]

That isn't what I said. I said the opposite. That I wouldn't say what is the right decision (I don't think anyone has the right to say if someone should put a kid up for adoption or not) but that the way they went about forcing and manipulating their daughter to give up her child was wrong.
I don't think I understand your logic either. The mother and father should make this decision. The "grandparents" really don't have a say. Of course they can have an opinion but legally it is not their decision. I don't think we will see eye to on that. I am a firm believer in the rights of young women.

Edit: Yes, giggity. I think they treated their daughter in a way that is damaging. And I don't think that acting that way is evidence of good parenting. I don't think they demonstrated any behavior that would make me think that they have been good parents. I cannot say that I am convinced that her birth mother wouldn't have done a better job if she wanted to. They put a roof over her head and that is all. I try my hardest not to judge people so I will stop short of calling them bad parents. All I can say is that they have not convinced me that they are decent people.

I did not misunderstand you. You wrote thsat the decison is always to be made by the teenager, the girl, actually, regardless of her ability to handle such a responsibility ( to paraphrase `the girl needs time to adjust/mature into the role of mother). Also, in this post you say you believe in the rights of young women, as if my viewpoint excludes them. Which is wrong. I am reacting to what is being shown on this show, and so far, for the most part, these kids are idiots who are selfish and self absorbed. Not all, but most of them. My reply was not unreasonable- the only reason these girls can keep their babies in somewhat safe conditions is because their parents take them in and provide all of the necessities. W/o their parents these girls would be on the street as would the child. Therefore, they should have a say since they are providing everything for mother sand child. You mention the parents coercing their daughte(again I disagree with your assertion they are bad parents), yet the fact is some of these girls use manipulation to get what they want, i.e. ' If you don't let me do this or that then I'll take the baby and you'll never see me again.' How mature and responsible.
We will never see eye to eye because you're focus is soley on the rights of the girl, rergardless if she is capable or not. I believe in pursuing legal rights for a person regardless of gender or age, on a case by case basis. I believe in looking at the big picture rather than focusing on one small part. The rights of one person should not be at the expense of what is best for a child. Grandparents do have rights, btw and can go to court to prove neglect on the part of the parent(s). They wind up as either legal guardians or outright adoptive parents. To me, it is the rights of the child that matter most.

[redsox girl]

p.s. because I was a child born into the very situations being shown I think my experience counts for something more than just opinion. As I wrote, Thank God someone finally stepped in and rescued me from a very bad situation that I had to endure for several years, all because my biological mothers `rights' were more important than mine.

[RealityLovesMe]

I did not misunderstand you. You wrote thsat the decison is always to be made by the teenager, the girl, actually, regardless of her ability to handle such a responsibility ( to paraphrase `the girl needs time to adjust/mature into the role of mother). Also, in this post you say you believe in the rights of young women, as if my viewpoint excludes them. Which is wrong. I am reacting to what is being shown on this show, and so far, for the most part, these kids are idiots who are selfish and self absorbed. Not all, but most of them. My reply was not unreasonable- the only reason these girls can keep their babies in somewhat safe conditions is because their parents take them in and provide all of the necessities. W/o their parents these girls would be on the street as would the child. Therefore, they should have a say since they are providing everything for mother sand child. You mention the parents coercing their daughte(again I disagree with your assertion they are bad parents), yet the fact is some of these girls use manipulation to get what they want, i.e. ' If you don't let me do this or that then I'll take the baby and you'll never see me again.' How mature and responsible.
We will never see eye to eye because you're focus is soley on the rights of the girl, rergardless if she is capable or not. I believe in pursuing legal rights for a person regardless of gender or age, on a case by case basis. I believe in looking at the big picture rather than focusing on one small part. The rights of one person should not be at the expense of what is best for a child. Grandparents do have rights, btw and can go to court to prove neglect on the part of the parent(s). They wind up as either legal guardians or outright adoptive parents. To me, it is the rights of the child that matter most.

I think you don't understand what I am saying. And I don't agree with your logic either. I think this is just one of those things where the conversation needs to continue through PM if it continues at all.
Women's rights are important. But if you all think that the grandparent's rights are more important, perhaps take that up with your state legislators. I think it would be a terrible step backwards.

[tears.and.rain]

I'm not sure why you're insisting this is a women's rights issue. It's not. It's an issue of parents' rights. No one's going to force a woman to give up her baby, but a child is a different story. And if Lori had made the decision that she wanted to keep that baby no matter what, then the law would have supported her. How is she being oppressed or judged or denied any sort of right based on her gender?

Wasn't it a few pages back that you said that these girls shouldn't be judged for not growing up and taking care of their responsibilities? So which is it - they are responsible enough to make this decision automatically because they got pregnant, but they aren't responsible for showing some maturity and stepping up and taking care of their baby?

[RealityLovesMe]

I'm not sure why you're insisting this is a women's rights issue. It's not. It's an issue of parents' rights. No one's going to force a woman to give up her baby, but a child is a different story. And if Lori had made the decision that she wanted to keep that baby no matter what, then the law would have supported her. How is she being oppressed or judged or denied any sort of right based on her gender?

Wasn't it a few pages back that you said that these girls shouldn't be judged for not growing up and taking care of their responsibilities? So which is it - they are responsible enough to make this decision automatically because they got pregnant, but they aren't responsible for showing some maturity and stepping up and taking care of their baby?

That's not what I said. Please, if you are going to have such a strong reaction to what I say, try and read what I am saying. I think you are a really smart kid but I think you misunderstand certain concepts like "women's rights." And it is difficult to have a debate when we don't seem to be on the same page about the basics. I can tell when the conversation is headed toward being inappropriate so we can continue this discussion in PM or not at all.
I usually get in trouble when I pursue these sort of conversations.