Oh, whoa....here we go.
Stop paying your taxes and you won't be a victim.
Oh, whoa....here we go.
Stop paying your taxes and you won't be a victim.
Last edited by prhoshay; 12-09-2010 at 12:06 PM.
"...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer
When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, you know which one you hit by the one that yelps!
Um, no -- I didn't suggest that at all. In fact, I clearly asked in my post "Is the money they get from MTV for being on the show enough that it means they are completely ineligible?" I have no idea how much these kids are getting from MTV to be on this show, but for most of them they are "unknowns" who appear on one episode and I cannot imagine that there would be a phenomenal amount of money involved (of course, that may be different for the girls who go on to appear on Teen Mom). When we see these young people on the show they are always struggling to buy baby supplies, move out on their own, or even find a job. They don't appear to be rolling in the dough. Maybe the MTV money comes after the show is shot and they have a brief windfall, but like I said it isn't going to make them rich. Eventually they are going to end up right back where they started.Originally Posted by StormWarning1;4123327;
I know exactly what I am saying when I refer to government programs and that it is we, as taxpayers, that fund them. I am not suggesting that these teen parents live off of welfare for the rest of their lives. These types of programs have been in existence for a very long time and the goal is for them to give a helping hand to people in need. If these kids are in need, then I see no problem with them using government run assistance to help them get by and better themselves. I think it is despicable when people try to milk these government programs and continue to procreate with the goal of getting more money. On the flip-side I do not think there is anything wrong with people taking advantage of these programs to get themselves through college while raising their child so that they can have a career and be self-sustaining. participating in government programs to help them with the basic necessities is a far cry from a trip to the Bahamas.Originally Posted by StormWarning1;4123327;
The government certainly does not provide "lots" of classroom education on this subject. They may provide some basic facts, but I sure as heck wouldn't depend on them to tell my kids what they need to know!Originally Posted by StormWarning1;4123327;
This is where parents SHOULD have talked to their kids from the age of 5 on about how every action in life has a consequence. And that everything is a trade-off. Choose chocolate and you can't have vanilla. Have a baby and you can't go away for the weekend with your friends.Originally Posted by ClosetRTWatcher;4123378;
Imagine, for just a few minutes, that (gasp!) there were no government programs. Where would these teenagers get the information they need to survive? How would they ever learn to shop and make nutritious meals? Well, perhaps they would talk to their parents, who should have been providing this training for the first 15 years of their life. Maybe the teens would have to ask their aunts or cousins or neighbors for help, information, and recipes. They could start paying attention in class. Maybe the teens would have a church that would help provide the knowledge that these teens haven't acquired. Their family might belong to an association that would help. There are various non-profits out there. Or maybe, just maybe, they would use their brain and figure out some of this on their own. Just quit turning to The Government and demanding that I work and pay because you couldn't say "no" to your boyfriend.
I'm tired of seeing kids who do everything right in life, who work hard and play the game according to the rules, who want to get a better job or go to college, but there are no programs for good kids. But hey, get pregnant and you want the government to pay for your education. The losers win and the winners lose.
The first lesson these teenagers need to learn is that they can't have everything. Whatever they choose in life will come with a price.
Ahh, you parents out there need to step back into the picture and be a parent. Quit trying to be your child's best friend. It kinda creepy to hear you say "My best friend is 9 years old." It is your JOB to teach your children what they need to know. Teach them the mechanics of sex and birth control, but also teach them YOUR moral and feelings about sex. Teach them what happens if they get pregnant before they have job skills (or a driver's license).
Wow. So kids who don't have the advantages of good parenting are just left in the cold? To become bad parents to more kids, who will become bad parents to more kids... good plan. Kids don't choose their parents, and there should be help for those who are suffering through no fault of their own (i.e. children).
You know what? Teen pregnancy can happen to "good" kids with good grades and "good" families too. But the "good" kids you're speaking of probably actually have parents who have done their job, who will help them get loans and financial aid. I don't know how recent your experience with colleges is, but most now accept people need-blind and guaruntee that they will meet the demonstrated need of a student. There are work study programs, programs through individual departments of the schools, scholarships left and right and center. So, to say there's nothing out there for "good kids" is just sadly misinformed.
Also, isn't it good that these teen mothers want to better themselves? If we condemn teen mothers to a life of "loserdome" (lovely) we just continue the cycle. I think there should be help for ANYONE who wants to better their lives.
And another thing - what about the children of these teen mothers? It sounds like you would have them just be on their own, the mothers that is. Have you considered how detrimental that can be for the baby - who, by the way, didn't ask to be born??
So, providing women and children with food that they couldn't otherwise afford is equal to a trip for you to the Bahamas? Excuse me for pointing this out, but that makes NO sense.Originally Posted by StormWarning1;4123327;
The government provided me, just a few years ago, with ONE "sex ed" class a year. 75 minutes. To teach an entire class of 30 kids about all the physical, emotional, and social responsibilities of sex. And it didn't provide anything to me until I was 17. Too late for many of the featured girls.
Don't get me wrong, I think that along with welfare and/or WIC, there need to be programs that are getting these people job skills so they can get OFF of these programs. But that doesn't change the importance of those programs themselves.
And excuse me for pointing out that YOU have no damn right to MY money. There's a bumper sticker that's harsh, but true: "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."Originally Posted by tears.and.rain;4123708;
I'm part of that growing group that is tired of working hard all week, then stopping by the grocery store only to see the woman in front of us (usually with several children) in the checkout line buying food with foodstamps that WE can't afford. Their cart always has the good stuff, the extras like chips and soda and cookies. Our cart has milk, cheap beef for stew, and house brand crackers. I'm tired of stopping for gas and, while waiting to pay, watch some kid run in with a foodstamp card to buy Slurpees and candy bars. Yeah, that's why I got up early today and went to work.
We have seen how easy it is for welfare to become a way of life. As a country, we now have fourth generation welfare families! Think of it -- families who have never known what it is to work and earn a paycheck. If I didn't have any pride, I'd be quite happy to sit home and let you send me a check every month to cover my grocery bill.
Too bad you didn't have parents who did their job, which would have taken care of teaching you about the emotional and social responsibilities of sex. Once again, you're asking The Government to do it all for you.Originally Posted by tears.and.rain;4123708;
Of course, if you were The Government and could institute a class that would teach the emotional and social responsibilities of sex, it would be identical to the course that I would teach. No, it would be different? Then how do you expect The Government to teach a class of 30 kids with 30 families who have a very different idea of what the "emotional and social responsibilities of sex" are?
Programs for this, programs for that. It seems you can't see beyond The Government providing a program for everything. For thousands of years in thousands of cultures, people somehow got by without The Government fulfilling their every want and need. Stand on your own two feet. Learn that life isn't always pleasant, that you will have to work for what you want, and that you can't have everything now.Originally Posted by tears.and.rain;4123708;
i can't even bear to read any more of this hogwash after the first paragraph. bottom line, you don't like paying taxes and don't like how the gov chooses to spend your tax money, then feel free to move to another country!
that would be like me saying you don't wanna eat cheap stew meat, get a better job. your parents should've done more for you so your station in life would be better now and you could be eating filet mignon. sounds pretty stupid, huh?
Originally Posted by StormWarning1;4123870;
It is not the government's job to help anyone lie in the bed they have made. All of the girls on the show have made a choice to have sex, and to risk pregnancy. While there is no doubt that these parents need help in the form of financial assistance if they are going to provide these children with food, shelter, clothes etc. and earn a degree or a paycheck to that end, it is not the role of the government to provide these things to people who made a poor choice. Help of that kind should come from private avenues - be it family, or charitable organizations, or whatever. And if the extent of help needed is not something the parents of the infant can gather, adoption IS an option and these parents have refused it because they don't WANT to. Well, despite its name, parenthood is not about the parents.
What I'm saying is the truth of the matter is that no one is forcing these teenage parents to raise their kids, and if they can't make the dollars and cents work, the option exists for them to give the child a home where it DOES work.
Before anyone gets all defensive, I'm not saying all teenage parents or any parents should put their child up for adoption, just because they need some help, and there are exceptions to every rule. But for those who can't even make it on their own who can't make a mature decision to at least practice safe sex or even to have a loving relationship with a mutual agreement to responsibly abstain from sex, perhaps it would be wise for the first mature decision to be giving the child up. Perhaps. Not always, but sometimes (see: Caitlin and Tyler)
I prefer to stay and fight. I don't like the way the government is using my taxes and I'm doing something about it -- I'm voting in representatives who treat my money with respect.Originally Posted by buttahfly;4123891;
I do have a great paying job, putting me in a tax bracket (approximately 40%) to pay for all those wonderful government programs that keep you sucking at the teat of society. I have 2 post-graduate degrees (that does not mean 2 degrees after high school. My two degrees came AFTER finishing college). And my parents contributed some to my education, but I had to earn over 75% of the money. I didn't finish in 4 years, that's for sure. I worked 60 hours a week and went to school full time, graduating with a 3.65 GPA. While attending school, I didn't have much time to screw around and have fun, but let me tell you, now that I'm earning my own and not begging society to save my ass, I'm having a lot of fun.Originally Posted by buttahfly;4123891;
So yes, I can afford to buy my own meat. I can afford filet mignon when I need a decent steak. But I also have a mortgage and other bills, including having to pay for all your handouts that you seem to feel you deserve by virtue of breathing.
I don't like to see tax payer money wasted either. Times were hard for my business during the Bush years. I didn't think we were going to make it. And the federal spending during that time was way over the top. We didn't have a deficit when he went into office. What the hay happened? I voted for my representives to help save us from that administration. Thank God things are doing better now for my business.
I am more concerned with the government over spending on war than I am for a pregnant mother and child's food and medical expenses, but that's me.
Last edited by Debb70; 12-10-2010 at 02:39 PM.