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Thread: The Matrix: Reloaded - 5/15 (MAJOR SPOILERS WITHIN!)

  1. #31
    eny
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    So is the consensus a go, or a stay and wait for the dvd/video ?

    I loved xmen2 ...

  2. #32
    Combat Missions Fan Wolf's Avatar
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    Eny, I think some of the action scenes (motorcycle chase + a few others) are worth seeing on the big screen. Maybe you can catch the matinee show, but be ready to be lulled in some parts of the movie. I didn't think this movie was as exciting as Xmen, though. Those are just my thoughts.

  3. #33
    Pop Culturalist Mosaik's Avatar
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    @eny

    I agree with Wolf... you should definitely catch this in the theatre despite all of the criticisms that have been discussed here or elsewhere, simply because some of those later-stage action scenes have to be experienced on the big screen!



    @ splatty

    ***spoilers below*** LOOK AWAY!

    My theory is that Zion and all of the "free" humans are actually in some sort of Matrix within The Matrix. It was created for the 0.1% of the people that the Architect referred to - the ones who would not accept the Matrix as all of the other human slaves knew it, and thus chose to rebel... So the in-film creators of The Matrix implemented another level of illusion to deal with those "stronger" minds. In essence, the different Matrices are like layers of an onion...

    That would explain how Agent Smith, who is 100% software, was able to function outside of The Matrix after "possessing" the body of one of the freedom fighters from Zion. It would also explain why The One/Neo has powers outside of The Matrix, as he displayed when he stopped the machines with electricity from his hands near the end of the film.

    Of course, this cleverly deceitful Matrix within a Matrix has worked well and fine for the last 5 "versions" of The Matrix & The One, because each time The One/Neo was given the illusion of choice to save either Zion or Trinity... and each time he chose to save Trinity, leading to the destruction of Zion and a "reboot" of the entire Matrix.

    However, this time it's different, and there might be something to the "prophecy" afterall, because Neo/The One was actually able to save Trinity, and may also have the time and power to also save Zion, leading to potentially catastrophic consequences in the logic of the software since it functions based on the understanding that everything should "reboot" as it has 5 times before (as indicated by The Architect, who is supposed to be software)... but I guess we have to wait for Revolutions to find out.

    Of course, Neo could actually have God-like powers and Agent Smith could actually have the power to control human minds... and all of this would be rendered moot.

    Geez, I'm exhausted.

    ~M o s a i K~

  4. #34
    plaisirs volatils raindance's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Wolf
    aifan, I agree that the techno-babble between the architect and Neo is very important because it is the basis of the whole story. It was interesing, but the delivery was so boring. It was putting me to sleep.
    I agree.

    Also, I thought that Matrix2 would be totally meaningless if one didn't catch Matrix1. Half of the stuff going on, i had to infer from knowledge i gained from Matrix1.

  5. #35
    Sexy evil genius Paulie's Avatar
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    Went and saw the film yesterday and enjoyed it. I think it's a worthy sequel to the first movie in that it propelled the plot in new and surprising directions. Yes, it was a bit slow in places. But it was during the slow parts that the story unfolded. Some of the action was, frankly, a bit overdone and should have been edited. I was also a tad disappointed in the obvious computer graphics evident in the park battle and the freeway chase. But, because the story is still intriguing and mysterious, I recommend the film.

    **** SPOILERS BELOW!!! RUN AWAY!! RUN AWAY!!! ****

    I actually understood Neo's meeting with The Architect a bit differently than aifan described. The One is NOT given his/her powers by The Matrix. Instead, it is an organic consequence of having a Matrix to begin with. Inevitably, an anomaly will form within this organic program which will expose weaknesses within The Matrix itself. The prophecy and the ensuing quest are a fail-safe mechanism instituted by The Architect to locate the One anomaly and re-incorporate it into a new and more robust revision of The Matrix.

    I agree with Mosaik that Zion and "the outside world" are still a part of the larger Matrix. I don't necessarily think that the previous versions of The One were faced with the specific choice of saving Trinity, though. Neo's love for Trinity is a unique spin on the arrival of The One at The Source. It doesn't appear that The Architect has accounted for this. Perhaps the prophecy will be true this time. We'll see on November 5.
    When you're ten years old and a car drives by and splashes a puddle of water all over you, it's hard to decide if you should go to school like that or try to go home and change and probably be late. So while he was trying to decide, I drove by and splashed him again. - Jack Handey

    Read Paulie's Precaps for Survivor:Vanuatu: 1-2-3-4-5

  6. #36
    It was you. splatty's Avatar
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    ah thank you so much mosaik and paulie for your thoughts. these post-movie philosophical mumbo jumbo discussions are much more interesting than the actual conversations in the movie! ;

    or maybe i was just too worried that daycare would close up before the movie would end that i wasn't able to pay full attention to that architect conversation.

    sorry i didn't realize that i should post a spoiler warning . . .

    so here goes: SPOILERS BELOW
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    mosaik i love your theory of a matrix inside a matrix. that is really confusing isn't it!? but that makes sense as to why neo has such strange powers outside of the original matrix.

    so i guess this is the first time that he has discovered these powers?

    i also though that the choice of saving zion or trinity was something THE ONE had faced before. it seemed like the architect was pleased at the predictability of neo chosing trinity again. *shrug*

    i think i need to see the movie again now and pay closer attention!

  7. #37
    Pop Culturalist Mosaik's Avatar
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    Originally posted by raindance
    I agree.

    Also, I thought that Matrix2 would be totally meaningless if one didn't catch Matrix1. Half of the stuff going on, i had to infer from knowledge i gained from Matrix1.

    I totally agree with you, raindance... I was thinking the exact same thing during & after the movie. If people go to see this movie without seeing the first Matrix, they are going to A) be very, very lost; or B) get totally ripped off in terms of the background story & overall experience, which the first film carefully and successfully sets in place.
    ~M o s a i K~

  8. #38
    Pop Culturalist Mosaik's Avatar
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    Edited to add "SPOILERS" alert.

    --- SPOILERS ---

    @ paulie

    I agree with everything in your analysis, but we definitely have different interpretations of what The Architect was saying. I think everything, including the specific "choice" to save Trinity, was part of the elaborate "charade" or "illusion of choice" to contain the anomaly:

    Architect: Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the
    fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both
    beginning and end.
    There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the Source, and the
    salvation of Zion. The door to your left leads back to the matrix, to her
    and to the end of your Species. As you adequately put, the problem is
    choice. But we already know what you are going to do, don't we? Already, I
    can see the chain-reaction--the chemical precursors that signal the onset of
    an emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic and reason--an emotion
    that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth... she is
    going to die, and there is nothing you can do to stop it.

    Architect: Hope. It is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the
    source of your greatest strength and your greatest weakness.

    Neo: If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

    Architect: We won't.

    Neo exits out of the left door.
    It seems to me that The Architect knew he was going to present this choice, and also knew what The One/Neo was going to choose, before he ever arrived on the scene.

    That to me indicates that this is the calculated way that things are supposed to happen now and in versions past, and that a lot of what the Architect was saying was designed to manipulate the human emotion. The only thing he may not have expected was The One/Neo's success in saving Trinity this time... perhaps indicating that his power may be greater than the Matrix after all, ironically giving true life to the systemic "control" known as The Prophecy.
    ~M o s a i K~

  9. #39
    Sexy evil genius Paulie's Avatar
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    MORE SPOILERS

    ---- Don't read if you're not interested in hearing specific details about the movie ----

    The Architect specifically stated that Neo's specific interest in an individual (Trinity) was different from the loftier, save-the-entire-human-race feelings of the original five. Though he may have anticipated Neo's decision, it doesn't mean that everything went according to the ideal plan.

    Also noteworthy: when Neo was standing in the room with The Architect, the screens behind him seemed to indicate all the possible reactions Neo could have to a given stimulus. The scene would then select one screen and move "into" that screen. This is analagous to the way a computer makes decisions: by exhaustively listing all the possible decisions and making a decision based on an internal heuristic. Could it be that Neo and the others are all machines?
    When you're ten years old and a car drives by and splashes a puddle of water all over you, it's hard to decide if you should go to school like that or try to go home and change and probably be late. So while he was trying to decide, I drove by and splashed him again. - Jack Handey

    Read Paulie's Precaps for Survivor:Vanuatu: 1-2-3-4-5

  10. #40
    Pop Culturalist Mosaik's Avatar
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    Points taken... and sorry I forgot about the spoilers tag in that post.

    Very interesting observation in the second part of your post as well... Cheers!

    Just to scale the complexity of this thread back a touch...

    Did you think the homage to Superman films in the flying scenes was cheesy or not cheesy?

    1 vote for cheesy here!

    M
    ~M o s a i K~

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