+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 35

Thread: The Village Spoilers

  1. #11
    Allez les Bleus! Zaius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,362
    I have a few questions:

    1. At the beginning I seem to remember a child having been found dead, killed by the monsters from outside. If the monsters are really the elders, why would they kill their own just to make a point? Isn't that the very sort of crime they're trying to leave? And if I'm wrong about what happens, how do monsters scare villagers other than having stories told about them? Every now and then I'm sure some villagers must get curious and want to actually see bad things done by the monsters to realize they're truly bad. But if bad things are done, it's a crime - a sort of catch 22.

    A possible alternative is that when someone dies of a natural cause, the elders blame it somehow on the monsters. The problem with that is those close to the ones who died of natural causes will sometimes realize what's going on and the secret is in danger of being spread.

    2. I have trouble understanding Noah's actions. Was he trying to kill Ivy at the end? Just scare her? If he was trying to kill her, why didn't he do it before she left town - it would have been easier. If that is explained by him being mentally handicapped then how do you explain the amount of planning that went into having him find the elders' shed, put on the costume, and stalk Ivy for some time in the woods. Also, why did he put the monster's costume on at all? Ivy can't see him, and she would be the only one outside. It looks like something that does not flow with a character's motivations but is there just for the movie's scaring purposes.

    I think that's all - for now

    ETA: One more thing, what was the deal with him falling? Did he die? Was that a real trap or just a ditch?
    Last edited by Zaius; 08-08-2004 at 03:15 PM.
    "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of an expanding bureaucracy."
    -- Unknown

  2. #12
    Resident Single Gal erin_dye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Snoozing at my desk again.
    Age
    34
    Posts
    678
    answer 1:
    The child at the beginning of the film died of natural causes. That is why no one was sent to the towns to get medicine for him. He was not the victim of the kinds of crimes they elders had left the towns to avoid.

    answer 2:
    I think Noah was just trying to play with Ivy, not kill her. Judging from the scenes where they were playing earlier in the film, they chased each other around a lot.

    I hope this helps.

  3. #13
    Allez les Bleus! Zaius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,362
    Thanks. But do you have an opinion about the reason why villagers are so scared of the monsters? I'm sure at some point in their lives they must want to at least come across one story where a villager was killed by a monster with some evidence of it. I am sure that a society that had never actually seen a case of "the monsters from outside" doing anything other than putting marks on doors, would test the boundaries of what they can do. We are mostly held back by what we know we cannot do, not what we think we cannot do.

    If he was playing with Ivy why did he say nothing? It seemed to me from his behavior that he was agressive towards her (the charging) rather than playful.
    "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of an expanding bureaucracy."
    -- Unknown

  4. #14
    FORT Newbie Malenkaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    39
    Remember when Ivy went into town and the ranger went to get medicines back at the office? Night was in there ready a newspaper and listening to the radio. The newspaper was full of stories of local murders. The radio was discussing it as well. There was a "local serial killer on the loose." The police had no leads.

    Now, it's known that Noah went into the woods. He obviously didn't know right from wrong and had no qualms about stabbing Lucius. So this is a theory I'm tossing around: Noah is the "serial killer" the cops are looking for. They have no leads on him because in their society he doesn't exist. He's mentally disturbed and obviously capable of committing the crimes. It's a known fact that he wandered into the woods - what would have kept him from reaching the town? It wasn't really that far away.

    In the end, the ultimate irony is that the village, a concept created to keep the bad elements of society away, was actually harboring a fugitive who had become a menace to the outside world.

  5. #15
    FORT Newbie Malenkaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaius
    But do you have an opinion about the reason why villagers are so scared of the monsters?
    The villagers are so scared because they have been taught to be afraid. They are conditioned that way. Aside from the marked doors, and then the dead animals I'm sure there were stories about people being killed by the monsters in the past.

    The elders created their own history in that sense. They said they had a "truce" with "those we do not speak of." (Which kind of makes them more scary, if they're intelligent enough to communicate with and have a truce with as well.) They do not come into the village, as long as the people in the village do not venture into the woods. Since the truce was a made up story, it stands to reason people had been murdered by the creatures before a truce was reached. History told the villagers the creatures could kill them and they were to be feared.

    Personally, Hitler lived and died before I was born. But if he was still alive today and I was aware of his actions, he wouldn't have to kill anyone I knew personally for me to fear what he was capable of doing. I think it's the same concept here. Fear is the only requirement...no proof was really needed by the current generation. The "truce" covered them for the time being.

  6. #16
    Allez les Bleus! Zaius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,362
    Well this could become a discussion about human nature, but I believe that there has to be a certain level of evidence available to the current generation for them to accept the menace that they're always told about. Joaquin's character is an example of it. I'm sure the fact he saw no evidence personally related to any bodily harm done by the monsters contributed to his willingness to the test the boundaries, no pun intended. In other words, I believe a society could not be kept stable and inside for as long as the movie's society does. Again, this discussion could go on forever about what human nature would be like under extreme situations, so there's no way we can really come to a complete agreement on it. This criticism I have in no way detracted from my enjoyment of the movie, though.
    "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of an expanding bureaucracy."
    -- Unknown

  7. #17
    FORT Newbie Malenkaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaius
    Well this could become a discussion about human nature, but I believe that there has to be a certain level of evidence available to the current generation for them to accept the menace that they're always told about.
    I think it would take much longer for enough doubt to dispell what they were told. As an "old fashioned" community, the minds of the children are never given any reasons to doubt their elders. With no contact with the outside world, they only know what they are told and nothing else. I think that may have played into the idea of turning back the calendar 100 years. Myths and legends seemed more believable back then as well. It's hard for us to imagine in modern day, but people were much more trusting back then, and it would take a lot to make them question the people who they looked to for knowledge and their way of life. There weren't as many skeptics as in modern day. Lucius made his first plea to the elders because of his friendship with the little boy that died. He realized the town needed medicines, and he could obtain them by going through the woods and to the next town. And although he addressed the elders by saying he thought he would be let to pass, human nature would naturally have him debating it in his head. But he felt it was a risk worth taking. This was only a theory to him until he had proof that Noah ventured into the woods. He may have thought himself somewhat as a soldier going into battle. Success would be enough of a value to the community he felt it worth the risk he would take. He believed it was the right thing to do.

    The elders themselves thought Iy's father had blown it by sending her into the village. Then what happens to her (or rather what she thinks happens to her) has already started making its way around the village when she returns. Noah's parents are told that their son's death "has made our story real." And this is why I believe it works. The creatures did not really exist, so obviously no one had been killed. But the elders took turns dressing in the creature costume, which made the creatures real to the villagers (the kid in the watchtower saw the creature go by). Seeing the creature is enough for them to make them believe they are real. The killings of the animals and marking of the doors also makes them believe. People didn't have to die, they just had to believe the threat, and that was carried out far enough to make them believe. The fact that the village had a watchtower, the bell and all the villagers immediately went into their cellars when the bell rang shows that they had all gone through it before. Think of it like the emergency broadcast system. Everyone is familiar with it, but if it went off for real, there would be disbelief, followed by a degree of pandamonium, before people starting doing what they had been taught to do. Not these villagers. The bell went off and immediately everyone dropped what they were doing and took off for where they were supposed to be. To me that said they had been through it many times before. It was a normal part of their lives. Up to that point, no one had to die. These "drills" and sightings of a creature in town made them a very real threat. And as they said at the end, now Noah's death would make it real, because they would say he had been killed by a creature. That is what makes you believe they will continue.

  8. #18
    Allez les Bleus! Zaius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,362
    I am totally aware of the amount of conditioning the society went through. How it is a daily part of life, their great amount of trust for their elders, the occasional deaths blamed on the monsters, the fact they can see the monsters, etc... I agree that they are important factors and that they mostly keep the villagers in line and unquestioning.

    But I was speaking about the occasional curious or brave soul that is bound to emerge in any society. This person would not even have to be necessarilly smart and could be reckless; as a result this person would want to see for him/herself just where the limit can be pushed.

    For example if only one brave person like this were to go in the forest, find no monsters (or find one and not be harmed by it) and return to tell the tale, the elders would have no way of shutting him up (unless they commited a crime). Even if the elders were intent on commiting crimes to keep the secret, there would surely be some chance of escape or overpowering on the part of the curious person. It only takes one. That's why I think this organization is very fragile, one leak is enough.

    By the way, I love these discussions and I wouldn't mind doing this with other movies that make you think!
    Last edited by Zaius; 08-08-2004 at 11:48 PM.
    "The bureaucracy is expanding to meet the needs of an expanding bureaucracy."
    -- Unknown

  9. #19
    FORT Newbie Malenkaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaius
    But I was speaking about the occasional curious or brave soul that is bound to emerge in any society. This person would not even have to be necessarilly smart and could be reckless; as a result this person would want to see for him/herself just where the limit can be pushed.
    Of course these people will always exist. But in those surroundings, they will be few and far between. The elders had created the village very carefully, so there was still very little reason for doubt. They had Lucius - he was the one who questioned. Everyone else followed. Except for Noah, but he was mentally challenged, and even if he had ran to the center of the village to say all the elders were liars, who was going to believe him?

    In my previous post I had originally mentioned (and eventually removed, as it got quite long) that this was the first generation of "the village." I believe this fact is very important in the film. I completely understand where you're coming from. It would have been unrealistic to believe if Night tried to convince you this lie had gone on for hundreds of years. The village had only existed for around 20 years. I do not find it difficult to believe that since the first generation of elders were middle aged (not elderly) that the secret was indeed just that. All the village had were the fictional stories of previous generations. There would be no disbelievers in fictional previous generations. It would take real generations of real villagers - more people like Lucius - to brew the underbelly of doubt within the village. It was simply too new for such whisperings to have happened. Yet.

    That's why I think this organization is very fragile, one leak is enough.
    It is fragile. The elders were very aware of it. That's why Walker sends his blind daughter through the woods. She was the only one who could possibly reach the outside world and not come back to tell of what she found. And even then, her father knew there was a chance she would realize what was out there (the modern world). And he realized he had to tell her the truth about the creatures and the woods. The only reason he allowed her to go was because Lucius had been the victim of a crime. And the village had been created to safeguard them from crime. In the past they had let people die if it was due to illness or accidents. They were an acceptable part of life. The very concept of the village had to be compromised in order to allow anyone to venture beyond their borders.

    By the way, I love these discussions and I wouldn't mind doing this with other movies that make you think!
    Same here. Unfortunately, most films are not this thought provoking!

  10. #20
    DOMESTIC GODDESS realitycrazmom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Cleaning toilets in these gloves...
    Posts
    487
    After seeing this movie for the second time, maybe I can help.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaius
    2. I have trouble understanding Noah's actions. Was he trying to kill Ivy at the end? Just scare her? If he was trying to kill her, why didn't he do it before she left town - it would have been easier. If that is explained by him being mentally handicapped then how do you explain the amount of planning that went into having him find the elders' shed, put on the costume, and stalk Ivy for some time in the woods. Also, why did he put the monster's costume on at all? Ivy can't see him, and she would be the only one outside. It looks like something that does not flow with a character's motivations but is there just for the movie's scaring purposes.

    I think that's all - for now

    ETA: One more thing, what was the deal with him falling? Did he die? Was that a real trap or just a ditch?
    Noah knew all along about the elders and their monster costumes. There was one hidden under the floorboards in the "quiet room" (in which he probably spent a lot of time in and discovered a long time ago). Also, there were all sorts of animal skins around the hole when his parents discover the missing costume, implying that he did the skinning of the animals. What I got from it was that he was trying to help out his parents and the other elders by doing some of the scaring stuff, unbeknownst to the elders. Notice how he was totally excited when the creatures came around? He, in his childlike way, thought it was just for fun and tagged along.

    My guess, since Noah was considered the village idiot, that he was privy to certain conversations either between his parents or the other elders on the goings-on with the creatures, they were careless with their speech, why not with their 'secrets' as well? Any elder could have suggested a plan or idea that Noah hears and decides to put into action on his own. (That's why the red marks were such a shocker to the elders.)

    Now, with Noah's going after Ivy in the woods. First of all, the hole he fell into was man-made. When Ivy first fell in, she falls through boards, not roots or branches. It was a long enough drop to kill a person, especially if they are in a heavy and cumbersome outfit with large, sharp quills on the backside. My guess---those traps were probably put there by the elders as a means to either trap anyone who ventured into the woods or for those who might just hop the fence and go snooping around.

    I think Noah first went after Ivy with the intent to harm her because of her slapping him in the quiet room. Remember that the elders are having the argument right outside the window of the 'quiet room', so Noah knows the whole plan. But I think once he realized that he wasn't scaring her with the costume, his feelings for her overcame him. That's why when he rushes her, he jumps over her instead of tackling her down. When she started to run, he probably thought it was another game of hide and seek.

    Quote Originally Posted by weezerette
    I think this is also the reason they allowed ivy to get medicine for Lucifus was that he was the victim of crime, what they had tried to eradicate, and not natural causes.
    Remember how they kept stonewalling Lucius's request to go into the towns? Since Ivy was convieniently blind and insisting on going, they kill two birds with one stone. Lucius gets the medicine for his infection and she doesn't see a thing, heck, she can't even read the paper requesting the medicine! If Ivy had her sight, there would be no way they'd let her go.

    What got me about this movie was the gall these people had in doing this. They were living in fear for their lives, so they create artifical peace for themselves. But while they selfishly live peace, their children live every day in fear. Dirty Bastards!

    The elders could make all kinds of modernistic slips with their language, we (audience) caught them-of course, but the kids being raised there wouldn't know the difference. They weren't taken away from modern society, so they have no knowledge of anything else.

    I also thought it interesting that the paper M.Night was reading had an article about a 7-year-old boy's death. Just goes to prove that whether on the inside or the outside, death and sorrow still happen.

    I also think that with Lucius being "Mr Fearless" the elders thought that leaving a skinned animal or two around would be threatening enough to keep him at bay. When he actually went into the woods and then admitted to doing it, that's when the red marks and mass of skinned animals appeared (thanks to Noah, who was only trying to help).

    I was trying hard to watch the wedding scene to see if any of the elders are missing. They seem to all be accounted for in at least one scene or another. Noah is there dancing, but when the little boys are heard screaming and panic sweeps through the hall, I couldn't find/see Noah in any of the crowd shots.
    If I'd been a ranch, they would have named me The Bar None~~ Gilda

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.