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Thread: Fahrenheit 9/11

  1. #51
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    I am sure it is an entertaining film, and I will likely go see it. However, the concept that Michael Moore has any grasp of the truth is pretty far from reality in my opinion. He has an agenda, and he is good at pushing it. It appeals to those who hate Bush and are looking for any outlet that supports it.

    That is the best part about America. People can freely produce this stuff, get rich while doing it, and the politico they are assualting can do absolutely nothing about it.
    I completely agree with the first quote you cited.. it's pretty much the same thing that I put in my original post about the movie: Moore tries to paint Iraq as this happy cheery place prior to the war, and it wasn't. I also mentioned that people need to go in there with an open mind and recognize the fact that there are two other sides to every issue that Moore raises. But.. we cannot uniformly dismiss everything in the movie as complete fiction, only dismiss the suppositions that he makes because of the facts.

    I'm not a Moore fan by any stretch of imagination.. but I'm also not a Bush fan, either. If you're smart enough to pick out Moore's agenda then you can come away from the movie being more educated about things that have taken place over the past four years. The facts are nasty enough without needing Moore's diatribe.

  2. #52
    Starbucks is your friend Bill's Avatar
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    Fair enough, but I think a collection of disjointed coincidences mixed with a healthy dose of fabrication does not add to education. That's just me though, and that principle applies to Moore, as well as to the target of his politically motivated hit piece, GWB.
    "George Oscar Bluth II, aka GOB, featured magician in the best selling videotape, "Girls With Low Self Esteem" invites you to enter his world.
    -- Arrested Development, Season III

  3. #53
    I like them silent WomynLee's Avatar
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    I just saw the 4:15 showing. There was a long line that extended around the block. I thought it was the line for Spiderman2, boy was I surprised when I found out it was for Fahrenheit 9/11. Even though I had to sit on the sides in a terribly packed and cramped theatre, I really enjoyed the movie.

    Michael Moore does what Michael does best. He askes the right questions and raises much awareness. It's a powerful film that will get people from all political sides talking...exactly what he wanted to accomplish. I give it

    Interesting article and link.
    Fahrenheit 9/11 is an amazingly powerful documentary. Moore collects skeins of archival footage—a young George W. driving across country, Paul Wolfowitz slicking his hair back with spit as he readies for the cameras, Bush addressing a fundraising dinner: “This is an impressive crowd, the haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite. I call you my base.”

    Moore weaves historic documents together with his signature vignettes—two Air Force recruiters bamboozling youth into the military, the mourning mother whose soldier son was killed in Iraq, and members of Congress running away as he asks them to sign up and enlist their children in the war.

    Through these, Moore constructs a penitential sackcloth for a president who has no clothes, and who, come November, will, electorate willing, be out of office. Thanks, significantly, to Michael Moore.

    Yes, Fahrenheit 9/11 is propaganda, in the same way the nightly news is, or the front page of your daily paper. It’s just that Moore is more upfront with the point he is trying to make. Critics contend that Moore is framing the president. Not quite. He builds his case with the president’s own words, numerous damning facts and the testimony of those most affected by the war.

  4. #54
    Starbucks is your friend Bill's Avatar
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    Through these, Moore constructs a penitential sackcloth for a president who has no clothes, and who, come November, will, electorate willing, be out of office. Thanks, significantly, to Michael Moore.
    Nothing like those unbiased reviews.

    So is it fact like this quote claims, or comedy as Moore now claims? I wish he would come clean on that issue. Just because he makes stuff up doesn't make it fact, but whenever caught in deceit he can always say, hey, it's satire! I give the guy credit, he knows his audience, and he knows how to market.

    America is a beautiful place.
    Last edited by Bill; 07-03-2004 at 05:08 AM.
    "George Oscar Bluth II, aka GOB, featured magician in the best selling videotape, "Girls With Low Self Esteem" invites you to enter his world.
    -- Arrested Development, Season III

  5. #55
    I like them silent WomynLee's Avatar
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    Bill, with all due respect, have you seen the movie? There are some people whose agenda is against Michael Moore rather than the points he brings up. I would rather see a debate against the "facts" than whether or not we like Michael Moore. Of course, one would have to see the movie first before commenting.

  6. #56
    Starbucks is your friend Bill's Avatar
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    I will see the movie, however the review you posted is hardly unbiased, and I merely pointed that out. Frankly it looks like it was written by moveon.org before the film was released. There is nothing to debate about the movie in my view. If Moore himself says it is a comedy, then I am assuming no longer that he thinks it is the truth.

    Secondly, Moore's track record is what I was commenting on, and it is not a fair, accurate, or truthful one. That is all documented fact. Finally, there is more than enough info about the film now on the net to point out that Moore is lying yet again, and thus is the reason the DNC is backing off of association with him, and why he is already back peddling from calling it being a documentary. I think it is a political hit piece in an election year, and I am shocked that even Moore supporters will not admit that. It appeals to those who hate Bush already, and are looking for anything that helps feed that fire.

    I think any debate of those so called facts belongs in CE, where guess what, the issues were debated last year, and the evidence debunking what he is claimed in the movie is already long since archived.

    I merely posted my opinion of the fraud Michael Moore. Others are certainly free to believe whatever makes them happy.

    Looking at the quote you posted, and others in this thread. Above, someone said that Bush kept reading to the classroom when the first plane hit. Well, he was told that a plane crashed into a building in NY, he was not told "the country is under attack". After the second plane hit, he immediately left. All of this is documented and recorded fact at the time. Would Michael Moore want the President of the United States to mobilize the country for war every time a plane crashed? Is that rational? Or is it taking shots at someone? What if he did mobilize immediately? Moore would be sitting there saying, "see, he had to know, what rational person would immediately assume attack whenever a plane crashed?" Come on people.

    Is it a bad thing for Paul Wolferitz to ensure he looks good before going on camera? Would you yourself not do that?

    Bush attends a lot of fundraisers, and nearly all politicos make off the cuff remarks through the grind of a campaign. One of my favorites being McCain slamming Shriver. Guess what John Kerry was doing this week? Attending $1000 or more a plate dinners for his campaign. Is he bad for doing so? I don't think so. It costs a lot of money to get elected. Guess what Bill Clinton did? He sold nights at the White House for contributions to the DNC. He also accepted cash... not checks... from China for reelection funds. The DNC later had to return $750,000 of cash to China (a story buried in the middle of the NY Times of course). I fail to see the Moore documentary lamenting those gross violations of the law.

    I will just finish, and give you the last comment, before Mod saying this needs to close, as this is the wrong forum for it (and i blame myself for taking it off track). If you (meaning the "you's" that will do so) want to vote against Bush, please do so for the reasons you find to be fact, and don't accept the pure bullsh*t that Moore spews, any more than people voting against Kerry because of the tripe you hear on right wing talk radio. You will respect yourself a lot more for it later.
    Last edited by Bill; 07-03-2004 at 04:04 PM.
    "George Oscar Bluth II, aka GOB, featured magician in the best selling videotape, "Girls With Low Self Esteem" invites you to enter his world.
    -- Arrested Development, Season III

  7. #57
    Not caring is fun! Matt64's Avatar
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    Michael Moore is an editorialist. You'll either agree or disagree with what he says. I tend to agree with the overall point he makes, but I recognise the fact that he is usually off in left field (literally) cobbling together news reels and sound bytes to create his story. There's nothing wrong with this.. it makes for a very humorous and entertaining movie, but the fact is, the facts are skewed to represent his point of view. He may be right (correct.. not right wing) over all, but the hour and a half (or whatever) journey that takes you to his overarching point, is manipulated.

  8. #58
    Not caring is fun! Matt64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    Looking at the quote you posted, and others in this thread. Above, someone said that Bush kept reading to the classroom when the first plane hit. Well, he was told that a plane crashed into a building in NY, he was not told "the country is under attack". After the second plane hit, he immediately left. All of this is documented and recorded fact at the time. Would Michael Moore want the President of the United States to mobilize the country for war every time a plane crashed? Is that rational? Or is it taking shots at someone? What if he did mobilize immediately? Moore would be sitting there saying, "see, he had to know, what rational person would immediately assume attack whenever a plane crashed?" Come on people.
    I think the more shocking image is that of Bush with the book upside down.. not that he didn't immediately rush out of the classroom. Librarian Laura must have been proud. (That was the same event wasn't it?)

  9. #59
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt64
    Michael Moore is an editorialist. You'll either agree or disagree with what he says. I tend to agree with the overall point he makes, but I recognise the fact that he is usually off in left field (literally) cobbling together news reels and sound bytes to create his story. There's nothing wrong with this.. it makes for a very humorous and entertaining movie, but the fact is, the facts are skewed to represent his point of view. He may be right (correct.. not right wing) over all, but the hour and a half (or whatever) journey that takes you to his overarching point, is manipulated.

    Thank you, Matt. Are you sure you're not American?

  10. #60
    Not caring is fun! Matt64's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway
    Thank you, Matt. Are you sure you're not American?
    Nope.. definately Canadian.

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