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Thread: Fahrenheit 9/11

  1. #41
    Staying Afloat speedbump's Avatar
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    A couple of my friends already saw it and said it was worth watching in order to validate one's opinion for arguments sake. I can't see it until next week. Ugh! After reading Christopher Hitchen's article on Slate.com, I'm salivating.
    You got to cry without weeping. Talk without speaking. Scream without raising your voice.- U2

  2. #42
    Go Bruins! Qboots's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump
    A couple of my friends already saw it and said it was worth watching in order to validate one's opinion for arguments sake. I can't see it until next week. Ugh! After reading Christopher Hitchen's article on Slate.com, I'm salivating.
    Christopher Hitchen was on Dennis Miller last night. Very enjoyable.
    "I'm telling you - it's a madhouse out there. I feel like Charlton Heston waking up in the field and seeing the chimp on top of the pony." ~ Dennis Miller

  3. #43
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ref guy
    I agree qboots, that was an unfair shot at you. As for the documentary it's an unfair shot at the events that took place. A piece of fiction by an angry man.

    Actually, all of the facts that he brings up are just that: facts. They are well documented and not anything new on Moore's part.

    Where he does get creative is in leaving out the other two sides to the story (Bush's and the truth). Moore's good at asking a lot of questions and trying to lean you in a certain direction, but he leaves you to make your own conclusion. If you can recognize that creative persuasion and remove yourself from it... then you've got nothing but facts to judge. There's no fiction here.

  4. #44
    I like them silent WomynLee's Avatar
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    I haven't watched the movie yet but will probably find time this weekend. I think it's interesting that Michael Moore has set up a "war room" to counter any attacks aimed to discredit his movie. Here's the full link.

    To counteract efforts challenging "Fahrenheit 9/11," he has hired Chris Lehane and Mark Fabiani, two former political advisers to Bill Clinton and Al Gore, to establish a "war room" that will immediately support any claims made in the movie that come under attack.

    The group, he said, will be staffed by six to seven people and will operate 24 hours a day, monitoring newscasts and scanning newspapers, magazines and other publications for statements made discrediting the movie.

    "You come at me with anything, we come back with the truth," Moore said.

  5. #45
    clap clap clap sleepysluggo's Avatar
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    I am dying to see this movie. I don't want to see it alone, though, because I know once I see it I'll be raging about something in it and will seek out a stranger to discuss the film. I don't wanna do that.

  6. #46
    Starbucks is your friend Bill's Avatar
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    Personally, I think Moore is a fraud. His intentional errors in Bowling for Columbine (which not surprisingly won an Oscar despite the voters knowing of these gross misrepresentations... in the very best demonstration of symbolism over facts) and Stupid White Men number in the hundreds.

    He routinely re-edits actual footage scenes, alters timelines, makes up completely unsubstantiated statistics for his movie to show what he wishes to show, and no, he is not asking questions, he is pushing his agenda. Which is to get rich off of slamming those politically opposed to his own beliefs. More power to him, and I love freedom of expression, and I am happy for him that he is so successful at doing it.

    However, if you take the same level of view to his actions as he so proudly tries to do to others, once you pull back the curtain, it is pretty ugly on the other side. The left would do well to find better standard bearers for their causes.

    In reference to the Americans (many of whom want to see his film): "They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet... in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pricks. Our stupidity is embarrassing. And 92 per cent of us don't own a passport." --Michael Moore, The Mirror, London in November 2003

    Is he saying everyone rushing to see his movie is stupid? You decide.... oh, and as per his norm, the 92% figure is completely wrong.
    "George Oscar Bluth II, aka GOB, featured magician in the best selling videotape, "Girls With Low Self Esteem" invites you to enter his world.
    -- Arrested Development, Season III

  7. #47
    That Crazy Red-Head! CopperPenny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skwadim
    I find it ironic that on THIS board especially, that people would have some problem with someone taking video clips of REAL LIFE situations and putting them together in order to create a certain type of understanding in the viewers - even though that reordering of clips and music selection may be a bit unfair, misrepresentative, and satirical at times.

    Hmm. I wonder, what other type of television does that?
    Yes, but reality television does not affect the presidential elections. Or at least it shouldn't.

  8. #48
    Scrappy Spartan Broadway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill
    In reference to the Americans (many of whom want to see his film): "They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet... in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pricks. Our stupidity is embarrassing. And 92 per cent of us don't own a passport." --Michael Moore, The Mirror, London in November 2003

    Is he saying everyone rushing to see his movie is stupid? You decide.... oh, and as per his norm, the 92% figure is completely wrong.
    Ahhh, but Bill... you're doing the very thing that you're accusing Moore of by taking one part of a conversation and quoting it here to support your own biased opinion of Moore.

    What was the context of the interview? What was the question that was asked whereby Moore answered in that manner? Was Moore talking about all Americans in the first comment, or (highly likely) talking about people that voted for Bush?

  9. #49
    hee Mdrio9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway
    Actually, all of the facts that he brings up are just that: facts. They are well documented and not anything new on Moore's part.
    Actually, there are things that aren't true in his film. Moore did say recently that he is not a journalist and that his film isn't a documentary. I haven't seen the movie myself, but I have read sites talking about things Moore says in it that aren't facts. Like, for example, Clarke said that he allowed the members of the bin Laden family to leave the US, not Bush. I'm not a huge Bush supporter or anything...I'm just citing what I've read.
    Last edited by Mdrio9; 07-02-2004 at 12:41 AM.

  10. #50
    Starbucks is your friend Bill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway
    Ahhh, but Bill... you're doing the very thing that you're accusing Moore of by taking one part of a conversation and quoting it here to support your own biased opinion of Moore.

    What was the context of the interview? What was the question that was asked whereby Moore answered in that manner? Was Moore talking about all Americans in the first comment, or (highly likely) talking about people that voted for Bush?
    Actually I am quoting what he said. It's a quote. Not the only one he makes like that either. I am sure he intends to refer to Bush supporters this way, but he didn't say that. He said Americans. Like many hollywood elite, he can't wait to bash us all when he leaves the country (I am sure that it couldn't be because it helps sell tickets... no, not at all).

    Oh, and despite the "team" of folks ready to counter any error in the claims of the film, Moore is already backing off, and now referring to it as a "Comedy" and not a documentary.

    My favorite comments on the movie so far come from an avowed Bush hater, and columnist for the Washington Post, Richard Cohen:

    "The stunning box-office success of "Fahrenheit 9/11" is not, as proclaimed, a sure sign that Bush is on his way out but is instead a warning to the Democrats to keep the loony left at a safe distance... Moore's depiction of why Bush went to war is so silly and so incomprehensible that it is easily dismissed. As far as I can tell, it is a farrago of conspiracy theories. But nothing is said about multiple U.N. resolutions violated by Iraq or the depredations of Saddam Hussein. In fact, prewar Iraq is depicted as some sort of Arab folk festival -- lots of happy, smiling, indigenous people. Was there no footage of a Kurdish village that had been gassed? This is obscenity by omission"
    It seems that Ray Bradbury, is not happy either:

    "He can't take my name and my title and have it apply to his film. My novel is not a political novel. It's an aesthetic novel. It's a philosophical and a sociological study in modern history. It's not political at all in any way. It's a study of humanity and education. So I want my title returned to me" -- science fiction writer Ray Bradbury, explaining to MSNBC's "Hardball" why he is upset his novel "Fahrenheit 451" was borrowed by filmmaker Michael Moore.
    I am sure it is an entertaining film, and I will likely go see it. However, the concept that Michael Moore has any grasp of the truth is pretty far from reality in my opinion. He has an agenda, and he is good at pushing it. It appeals to those who hate Bush and are looking for any outlet that supports it.

    That is the best part about America. People can freely produce this stuff, get rich while doing it, and the politico they are assualting can do absolutely nothing about it.
    Last edited by Bill; 07-02-2004 at 12:15 PM.
    "George Oscar Bluth II, aka GOB, featured magician in the best selling videotape, "Girls With Low Self Esteem" invites you to enter his world.
    -- Arrested Development, Season III

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