Paulie's Wacked-Out "Se7en" Theory (MAJOR SPOILERS!)

Paulie · 10-23-2002, 04:16 PM

OK, in response to Sher's request, I will post my theory. Now I haven't seen "Se7en" in ages, and I'm certain I'd be able to make a much stronger case if I'd just seen it yesterday, but I can remember most of it.

The fundamental tenet of the theory is that Kevin Spacey is not the killer at all, but just a psycho used as a pawn in the real killer's master scheme. So who is the real killer, you say?

Good question. It's Morgan Freeman.

Random list of reasons why:
- I started thinking it was him when he was making so many non-intuitive leaps of logic to track the killer.
- His reaction to finding the "killer"s headquarters was also odd. He didn't want Brad Pitt to go in there right away without reinforcements because he wasn't sure he hadn't left anything incriminating out there.
- Don't you think Spacey turning himself in was too easy? It was part of the plan. The ultimate final victim (and the final sin) was Brad Pitt himself, who Morgan Freeman thought represented the new breed of hotshot, self-absorbed cops.
- Freeman's bored and retiring. Time to put all his training to use for one final perfect crime.
- When the car arrives with the box, Freeman BUSTS ASS to be the first to get the box. Can't remember if Pitt actually looks in the box, but even if he does, it's just a glimpse. It's Freeman's reaction that tells him what he thinks he needs to know, and he's already in an agitated mental state from the buttons Spacey has pushed (according to the script laid out by Freeman).

Seriously, watch the movie again with this idea in mind and see how many things seem to back up what I'm saying. I developed the idea very early on, and I was 100% convinced by the end. I even wonder if there was an original script that revealed Freeman as the killer that got booted for being too depressing for American audiences.

Wacked, huh?

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sher · 10-23-2002, 04:38 PM

OMG! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!!?

cali · 10-23-2002, 05:05 PM

Wow, It's been so long since I've seen it!
I will have to watch it again.

LG. · 10-23-2002, 05:07 PM

Really cool theory, Paulie. I could buy it, and I love any movie that ends with Gweneth's head in a box. I can't watch Se7en again, though, as the one time we rented it my vcr was toasted and we needed to tear it apart to return the video to Blockbusters, so I'm taking a chance on wrecking more equipment with that movie.

Have you seen the DVD of Training Day (Paulie, Sher, anyone?) with the "optional ending"? If not, don't look MAJOR SPOILERS

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SPOILERS

The optional ending of Training Day has Ethan Hawke going back to his house after his horrendous first day, and two of the "big cop honchos" that Ethan met earlier in the day (who had heard about Denzel's troubles with the Vegas debt and Russian mobsters) follow him there and want to know what he did with the money and Ethan "I've checked them into the evidence room" and they go away. My hubby didn't think it was anything, but I think this ending indicates that the cop big-wigs were in on Denzel's scam to kill off his "buddy" with the money in the floorboards, knew it was coming, did nothing to stop it, and wanted the cash. A whole new level of corruption that was deemed to dark for the theatre version of the movie, which was pretty damn depressing as it was. Great movie though.

I love your theory Paulie.

Zhora · 10-23-2002, 05:08 PM

Dammit Paulie. Now I'm going to have to go home and watch it tonight. I'm almost as big a nitpicker as you when it comes to movies, so I should be able to tell if your theory holds water.

By the way...I love it, what an awesome twist!

LG. · 10-23-2002, 05:11 PM

Oh, one more question, did they get all 7 deadly sins covered, and if there was one left (for Brad) what was it? I though avarice was already used. Maybe he violated the virtue of cleanliness, as I've heard Pitt seldom showers and is quite stinky in person, ish.

Paulie · 10-23-2002, 05:11 PM

Quote:

I love any movie that ends with Gweneth's head in a box

I wish Shakespeare In Love had ended that way... Sorry if I gave away the ending by revealing that it did not.

Haven't seen Training Day yet. I'll have to come back to this thread in a couple of years when I get around to watching movies again.

LG. · 10-23-2002, 05:12 PM

you wouldn't see this part if you saw Training Day in a theatre or on VHS, you need a DVD player and have to select the optional ending, so I doubt that many people are as anal as I am and have even bothered to watch this part.

Paulie · 10-23-2002, 05:13 PM

Hey, Zhora, report back to us, OK? Like I said, it's been ages. But watch for those occasions when Freeman alone drives the case along. There are BUNCHES of 'em. Watch his reaction to Brad Pitt when he first sees him. Watch how he responds to finding the killer's nest. Watch the non-verbal interactions between Spacey and Freeman in the car ride out to the field. Watch him sprint to that car at the end and his phony reaction to what he sees within. I am so 100% frickin' sold on this theory that I doubt you'll be able to point out enough contradictory evidence to make me give it up.

Paulie · 10-23-2002, 05:14 PM

Oh, and when I first posted this on some newsgroup way back when, the hardcore "Se7en" lovers got in my face and called me a "stupid asshole". Yeah, that's appropriate.

10-23-2002, 04:16 PM	#1
Paulie Sexy evil genius Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not the regular cabana boy Age: 38 Posts: 11,787	Paulie's Wacked-Out "Se7en" Theory (MAJOR SPOILERS!) OK, in response to Sher's request, I will post my theory. Now I haven't seen "Se7en" in ages, and I'm certain I'd be able to make a much stronger case if I'd just seen it yesterday, but I can remember most of it. The fundamental tenet of the theory is that Kevin Spacey is not the killer at all, but just a psycho used as a pawn in the real killer's master scheme. So who is the real killer, you say? Good question. It's Morgan Freeman. Random list of reasons why: - I started thinking it was him when he was making so many non-intuitive leaps of logic to track the killer. - His reaction to finding the "killer"s headquarters was also odd. He didn't want Brad Pitt to go in there right away without reinforcements because he wasn't sure he hadn't left anything incriminating out there. - Don't you think Spacey turning himself in was too easy? It was part of the plan. The ultimate final victim (and the final sin) was Brad Pitt himself, who Morgan Freeman thought represented the new breed of hotshot, self-absorbed cops. - Freeman's bored and retiring. Time to put all his training to use for one final perfect crime. - When the car arrives with the box, Freeman BUSTS ASS to be the first to get the box. Can't remember if Pitt actually looks in the box, but even if he does, it's just a glimpse. It's Freeman's reaction that tells him what he thinks he needs to know, and he's already in an agitated mental state from the buttons Spacey has pushed (according to the script laid out by Freeman). Seriously, watch the movie again with this idea in mind and see how many things seem to back up what I'm saying. I developed the idea very early on, and I was 100% convinced by the end. I even wonder if there was an original script that revealed Freeman as the killer that got booted for being too depressing for American audiences. Wacked, huh? __________________ When you're ten years old and a car drives by and splashes a puddle of water all over you, it's hard to decide if you should go to school like that or try to go home and change and probably be late. So while he was trying to decide, I drove by and splashed him again. - Jack Handey Read Paulie's Precaps for Survivor:Vanuatu: 1-2-3-4-5

10-23-2002, 05:05 PM	#3
cali Soccer Kicks Balls Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: right behind you Age: 41 Posts: 15,258	Wow, It's been so long since I've seen it! I will have to watch it again. __________________ "Rice is great when you're hungry and want 2,000 of something' -- Mitch Hedberg

10-23-2002, 05:07 PM	#4
LG. perfectly pugnacious Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Whack-a-Mole Posts: 13,539	Really cool theory, Paulie. I could buy it, and I love any movie that ends with Gweneth's head in a box. I can't watch Se7en again, though, as the one time we rented it my vcr was toasted and we needed to tear it apart to return the video to Blockbusters, so I'm taking a chance on wrecking more equipment with that movie. Have you seen the DVD of Training Day (Paulie, Sher, anyone?) with the "optional ending"? If not, don't look MAJOR SPOILERS . . . . . . . . . SPOILERS The optional ending of Training Day has Ethan Hawke going back to his house after his horrendous first day, and two of the "big cop honchos" that Ethan met earlier in the day (who had heard about Denzel's troubles with the Vegas debt and Russian mobsters) follow him there and want to know what he did with the money and Ethan "I've checked them into the evidence room" and they go away. My hubby didn't think it was anything, but I think this ending indicates that the cop big-wigs were in on Denzel's scam to kill off his "buddy" with the money in the floorboards, knew it was coming, did nothing to stop it, and wanted the cash. A whole new level of corruption that was deemed to dark for the theatre version of the movie, which was pretty damn depressing as it was. Great movie though. I love your theory Paulie. __________________ Signature line? We don't need no stinkin' signature line.

10-23-2002, 05:08 PM	#5
Zhora Smiling again... Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Back in the city Yippee! Posts: 3,704	Dammit Paulie. Now I'm going to have to go home and watch it tonight. I'm almost as big a nitpicker as you when it comes to movies, so I should be able to tell if your theory holds water. By the way...I love it, what an awesome twist! __________________ I’m haunted a little this evening by feelings that have no vocabulary and events that should be explained in dimensions of lint rather than words. -Richard Brautigan

10-23-2002, 05:11 PM	#6
LG. perfectly pugnacious Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Whack-a-Mole Posts: 13,539	Oh, one more question, did they get all 7 deadly sins covered, and if there was one left (for Brad) what was it? I though avarice was already used. Maybe he violated the virtue of cleanliness, as I've heard Pitt seldom showers and is quite stinky in person, ish. __________________ Signature line? We don't need no stinkin' signature line.

10-23-2002, 04:38 PM	#2
sher hellooooooo Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: dallas, fer sure Age: 38 Posts: 8,551	OMG! WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!!?

10-23-2002, 05:12 PM	#8
LG. perfectly pugnacious Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Whack-a-Mole Posts: 13,539	you wouldn't see this part if you saw Training Day in a theatre or on VHS, you need a DVD player and have to select the optional ending, so I doubt that many people are as anal as I am and have even bothered to watch this part. __________________ Signature line? We don't need no stinkin' signature line.

10-23-2002, 05:13 PM	#9
Paulie Sexy evil genius Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not the regular cabana boy Age: 38 Posts: 11,787	Hey, Zhora, report back to us, OK? Like I said, it's been ages. But watch for those occasions when Freeman alone drives the case along. There are BUNCHES of 'em. Watch his reaction to Brad Pitt when he first sees him. Watch how he responds to finding the killer's nest. Watch the non-verbal interactions between Spacey and Freeman in the car ride out to the field. Watch him sprint to that car at the end and his phony reaction to what he sees within. I am so 100% frickin' sold on this theory that I doubt you'll be able to point out enough contradictory evidence to make me give it up. __________________ When you're ten years old and a car drives by and splashes a puddle of water all over you, it's hard to decide if you should go to school like that or try to go home and change and probably be late. So while he was trying to decide, I drove by and splashed him again. - Jack Handey Read Paulie's Precaps for Survivor:Vanuatu: 1-2-3-4-5

10-23-2002, 05:14 PM	#10
Paulie Sexy evil genius Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Not the regular cabana boy Age: 38 Posts: 11,787	Oh, and when I first posted this on some newsgroup way back when, the hardcore "Se7en" lovers got in my face and called me a "stupid asshole". Yeah, that's appropriate. __________________ When you're ten years old and a car drives by and splashes a puddle of water all over you, it's hard to decide if you should go to school like that or try to go home and change and probably be late. So while he was trying to decide, I drove by and splashed him again. - Jack Handey Read Paulie's Precaps for Survivor:Vanuatu: 1-2-3-4-5