Speculation Only - Page 6

mbcrowder · 07-01-2008, 02:57 PM

I highly doubt that anyone ever writes, "I think Joe is the Mole" in their diaries. We've seen a few - most of them are Who sat Where, what order tasks went in, who won/lost challenges, what people were wearing, who ate what at dinner - things to prepare for a quiz. The MOST they are going to write is, "Clay seems suspicious". It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to simply put who you think the mole is in your diary - you KNOW who you think the mole is, and we've seen in the past that sometimes people get to see your diary.

And even so - I can't imagine that the producers would contrive time for the Mole to see diaries, when they could easily look at them themselves if they wanted to, and feed whatever relevant info to the Mole if necessary.

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shoepie · 07-01-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I'm still in the Clay camp, but I find it strange to repeatedly hear the same two reasons for dismissing Paul and Craig...

Craig is dismissed as a potential health risk. Honestly - if the guy was healthy enough to be a contestant in the first place (and one would have to assume that the producers, knowing there's a great deal of physical activity and that they were going to adverse climates, would have put everyone through decent physicals), then he's healthy enough to be the Mole. Or, thought of the other way - if the producers would have had concerns with him enough to prevent making him the Mole, those very same concerns would have prevented him from being a contestant.

Also - the fact that he was put in the ambulance REALLY means nothing, mole-wise. It could EASILY have been a setup designed to make him look like he's not the mole.

I think he's not the Mole for other reasons - but his health is not and should not be one of them.

Paul - "He can't be the Mole - the producers wouldn't want such a loose cannon as the Mole." Assume for a second that he IS the Mole ... his behavior is molded by the producers. He EASILY could be staging this whole persona based on the typical NY stereotype to throw people off. Also - if this really IS his personality, I don't think there's any valid way for TPTB to have guessed he was this much of a hothead in advance. I just can't see this behavior as something that should eliminate him from Mole consideration.

This is my train of thought at the moment. It could easily change. I did repeat myself in two posts and I may again. Skip them if you think it strange.

You say you think Craig isn't the mole for other reasons. What are they? I am interested.

I love this show and hearing everyone's speculation is fun and often informative. I would like to hear your reasons why Paul may be the mole, too.

AsIs · 07-01-2008, 05:50 PM

Speculation is speculation. Health and attitude are two things being speculated about for being the Mole.

I tend to lean towards behavior and things I think are Moley, but to each thier own. My guess may be totally wrong.

I lean towards Alex and Clay, but have not ruled out Mark, Paul or Nicole. My main reason for ruling out Craig is the way he stepped up in the Pigs in a Blanket game. He used his knowledge that noone would be aware of to put money in the pot. When it would have been easy to let Alex continue to smash them into the ground. And I think it is unlikely the Mole would have done that.

mbcrowder · 07-01-2008, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoepie

This is my train of thought at the moment. It could easily change. I did repeat myself in two posts and I may again. Skip them if you think it strange.

You say you think Craig isn't the mole for other reasons. What are they? I am interested.

I love this show and hearing everyone's speculation is fun and often informative. I would like to hear your reasons why Paul may be the mole, too.

I think craig is not the mole due to two incidents - 1) Fixing the problem with the human slingshot in the piggy game. Yes - the mole doesn't sabotage every event... but actively fixing things to add money to the pot, when idly standing by and doing nothing would have put less money in, is extremely unmolelike behavior. 2) Finding the clothes at the laundromat - same deal.

Paul could easily be the mole. His attitude, if false, gives him a reason to be gruff when it helps him. Like I said though ... my money's on Clay.

NFL1 · 07-01-2008, 06:31 PM

On the other hand, Paul could be acting volatile, and the "photogenic" memory could only be due to his being filled in on the details, and plan...so he wouldn't need to worry about remembering anything for the quiz.

SecretGarden · 07-01-2008, 10:19 PM

So, I went on wikipedia to look up some Mole hidden clues/sabotage info. Before certain missions, the mole gets a tip off from the producers. For example, Bill form season 2 knew that the third person to say "i'm tired" in one of the challenges would be subject for an exemption, so he said "i'm tired" third to manipulate the situation. Similarly, the mole had to know that the first person to say "exemption" would be in the running for an exemption, and that the person that offered their journal would have it saved. I do not think Alex is the mole and i don't think Craig is either. BUT, from an unbiased perspective, I thought Alex's behavior was really really fishy during the journal burning. First of all, he barely writes in it at all. And then he offered it up willingly, which could be seen as molish activity. Craig saying "exemption" at breakfast almost seemed too obvious to me.

But I still think it's Clay. I'm sticking to him. Especially now that the whole religious theme issue is falling into place.

AsIs · 07-02-2008, 12:03 AM

Alex offering up his journal, if he wasn't the mole wouldn't be fishy. He doesn't write in it and would have thought it would give him a exemption. So if he wasn't the mole, it would be a no brainer to offer it up. It is all win win for him.

Evn · 07-02-2008, 01:49 PM

I'm surprised I haven't seen more votes for Mark, as I've been leaning towards him ever since week 1, when he did that weird crying confessional about missing his wife and kids. It seemed fake. Plus:

- Mark quickly dropped $20,000 in gold bars to pick up the scale.
- Mark joined clay in not running around town naked.
- Mark seemed shook up by losing his diary, even though it's a frequent twist in this show that this season's players even predicted.
- Mark messed up that historical objects challenge, even tho he's a history teacher.
- Mark spearheaded the revolt where they didn't compete in the travel challenge, then didn't take credit for it.

Almost all of these have been subtle, below-the-radar sabotages, which is how the mole has operated in the past four seasons.

LG. · 07-02-2008, 02:00 PM

I'd add one more to your list
- Mark (and Kristen) busted their humps to bike up the hill to get an exemption that cost the pot $35,000 in week 2.

However, I don't think Mark is at fault for messing up the historical objects because the scavengers only got 3 of the 5 correct items to the evaluators, and the evaluators got all three of those objects onto the table twice. The last two items (the tobacco tin and the tea kettle) were never "found" by the scavengers, so the evaluators didn't have them to consider. To me, that points more towards Clay or Alex or Craig as the Mole, as they were all scavengers.

I agree that Mark has cost the pot plenty of cash. I think you have a valid point. However, I don't know that he's a skilled enough actor to pull off this persona he has as the ultimate competitor. Maybe.

Skydancin · 07-02-2008, 05:12 PM

you can't hold the historical mishap against Mark, it probably wasn't intentional. Just because you're a history teacher (or grad student like me) doesn't mean that you know EVERYTHING about history.

I wouldn't discount him as not being the mole either though! This is my first season watching the show from beginning to end, it's been quite entertaining for me.

07-01-2008, 02:57 PM	#51
mbcrowder FORT Fogey Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dallas, TX Age: 41 Posts: 821	Re: Speculation Only I highly doubt that anyone ever writes, "I think Joe is the Mole" in their diaries. We've seen a few - most of them are Who sat Where, what order tasks went in, who won/lost challenges, what people were wearing, who ate what at dinner - things to prepare for a quiz. The MOST they are going to write is, "Clay seems suspicious". It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to simply put who you think the mole is in your diary - you KNOW who you think the mole is, and we've seen in the past that sometimes people get to see your diary. And even so - I can't imagine that the producers would contrive time for the Mole to see diaries, when they could easily look at them themselves if they wanted to, and feed whatever relevant info to the Mole if necessary. __________________ ---Mike

07-01-2008, 05:50 PM	#53
AsIs Helplessly Hoping Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,251	Re: Speculation Only Speculation is speculation. Health and attitude are two things being speculated about for being the Mole. I tend to lean towards behavior and things I think are Moley, but to each thier own. My guess may be totally wrong. I lean towards Alex and Clay, but have not ruled out Mark, Paul or Nicole. My main reason for ruling out Craig is the way he stepped up in the Pigs in a Blanket game. He used his knowledge that noone would be aware of to put money in the pot. When it would have been easy to let Alex continue to smash them into the ground. And I think it is unlikely the Mole would have done that. __________________ www.comicfusion.com Join the Fusion Club! Avatar is Renee Montoya, the new Question, thanks Uncle David!

07-01-2008, 06:31 PM	#55
NFL1 FORT Fanatic Join Date: May 2003 Location: Ithaca, NY Posts: 472	Re: Speculation Only On the other hand, Paul could be acting volatile, and the "photogenic" memory could only be due to his being filled in on the details, and plan...so he wouldn't need to worry about remembering anything for the quiz.

07-01-2008, 10:19 PM	#56
SecretGarden Impatient for finales! Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 104	Re: Speculation Only So, I went on wikipedia to look up some Mole hidden clues/sabotage info. Before certain missions, the mole gets a tip off from the producers. For example, Bill form season 2 knew that the third person to say "i'm tired" in one of the challenges would be subject for an exemption, so he said "i'm tired" third to manipulate the situation. Similarly, the mole had to know that the first person to say "exemption" would be in the running for an exemption, and that the person that offered their journal would have it saved. I do not think Alex is the mole and i don't think Craig is either. BUT, from an unbiased perspective, I thought Alex's behavior was really really fishy during the journal burning. First of all, he barely writes in it at all. And then he offered it up willingly, which could be seen as molish activity. Craig saying "exemption" at breakfast almost seemed too obvious to me. But I still think it's Clay. I'm sticking to him. Especially now that the whole religious theme issue is falling into place.

07-02-2008, 12:03 AM	#57
AsIs Helplessly Hoping Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,251	Re: Speculation Only Alex offering up his journal, if he wasn't the mole wouldn't be fishy. He doesn't write in it and would have thought it would give him a exemption. So if he wasn't the mole, it would be a no brainer to offer it up. It is all win win for him. __________________ www.comicfusion.com Join the Fusion Club! Avatar is Renee Montoya, the new Question, thanks Uncle David!

07-02-2008, 01:49 PM	#58
Evn FORT Regular Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 73	Re: Speculation Only I'm surprised I haven't seen more votes for Mark, as I've been leaning towards him ever since week 1, when he did that weird crying confessional about missing his wife and kids. It seemed fake. Plus: - Mark quickly dropped $20,000 in gold bars to pick up the scale. - Mark joined clay in not running around town naked. - Mark seemed shook up by losing his diary, even though it's a frequent twist in this show that this season's players even predicted. - Mark messed up that historical objects challenge, even tho he's a history teacher. - Mark spearheaded the revolt where they didn't compete in the travel challenge, then didn't take credit for it. Almost all of these have been subtle, below-the-radar sabotages, which is how the mole has operated in the past four seasons.

07-02-2008, 02:00 PM	#59
LG. perfectly pugnacious Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Whack-a-Mole Posts: 13,539	Re: Speculation Only I'd add one more to your list - Mark (and Kristen) busted their humps to bike up the hill to get an exemption that cost the pot $35,000 in week 2. However, I don't think Mark is at fault for messing up the historical objects because the scavengers only got 3 of the 5 correct items to the evaluators, and the evaluators got all three of those objects onto the table twice. The last two items (the tobacco tin and the tea kettle) were never "found" by the scavengers, so the evaluators didn't have them to consider. To me, that points more towards Clay or Alex or Craig as the Mole, as they were all scavengers. I agree that Mark has cost the pot plenty of cash. I think you have a valid point. However, I don't know that he's a skilled enough actor to pull off this persona he has as the ultimate competitor. Maybe. __________________ Signature line? We don't need no stinkin' signature line.

07-02-2008, 05:12 PM	#60
Skydancin FORT Regular Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Detroit Posts: 126	Re: Speculation Only you can't hold the historical mishap against Mark, it probably wasn't intentional. Just because you're a history teacher (or grad student like me) doesn't mean that you know EVERYTHING about history. I wouldn't discount him as not being the mole either though! This is my first season watching the show from beginning to end, it's been quite entertaining for me.