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  1. #31
    FORT Fogey
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    Quote Originally Posted by pg13
    But you and millions of Americans ARE still watching LCS every week...and by the time you're so annoyed that you won't watch it anymore, the summer will be over and it'll be back to NBC MUST SEE TUESDAY, NEXT UP "SCRUBS!" so they are under no impetus to change anything. Maybe what they're offering is EXACTLY what America wants?
    Last time I checked, I was part of America, and it's definitely not what I want. I'm watching the show less and less, not to mention, flipping channels more and more. The good news for LCS is that there isn't much competition on network TV, but I'm gravitating toward the reruns of ANTM Cycle 1.
    Network execs may have their reasons, but I don't think they're smart reasons. And yes, before you quote me, I put network execs and smart in the same sentence. If you look at the structure of the show, the climax comes in the heat of competition, exactly the point where we're seeing the same stale stuff. That's the point where I tune out and watch something else. I usually don't find out who won until the next show or by coming here.


    Quote Originally Posted by pg13
    Poor explanation on my part and I could salvage the analogy, but let me try it a different way.

    Would you NOT go to a concert for a band where you knew most of their hits? There are TONS of bands who perform the same songs night after night...some of them even have fans who see them at every step of the way... Most of them are bands that have been around for awhile, and while they might record new albums, nobody wants to hear new songs...they just want the hits.

    There are comedians like that...Gallagher, Don Rickles, Rodney Dangerfield...and even Jerry Seinfeld was in danger of that until he took the brave move and ditched the act he worked 20+ years on to start fresh (as shown in "Comedian").
    I'll concede the audience issue, but you have to give up the music analogy. I can't remember the last time I was driving in my car shouting DOn Rickles at the top of my lungs as I tapped my fingers in rhythym. (Probably because it never happened.) Music is a COMPLETELY different beast and has the ability to work it's way into your subconscious with a good beat and rhyme.

    And for the record, there are groups and singers I used to LOVE but don't listen to anymore because they have nothing new. Whatever happened to Fiona Apple? Used to love her music, but if she came around now, I wouldn't go to the concert--the songs are tired.


    Quote Originally Posted by Krom
    No. This is only even close to fair (or possible) if they are given a three month or more period after being picked for the show before the part in the house starts. People don't write comedy that fast. Jay Leno needs an army just to write 3 minutes of jokes a night.
    Who said anything about fair? I want entertainment. I'd love to see them bomb as much as succeed. Give me an audience that has to pick between two crappy performances any day of the week. I want to see them sweat. Now that's comedy--sadistic, but funny.

  2. #32
    It ain't easy being green Wayner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by starrylea
    To answer the "some audience members must have attended more than one taping":

    You weren't allowed to. I went with one group of people and we had such a great time we tried to go again but the producers had said they didn't want anyone who had already attended a taping... they wanted as few spoilers getting out as possible.

    For instance if you went to one taping that had say Bonnie and John and then you went to another taping a couple of days later and that one also had John, you would obviously know that John was the winner of the earlier match up. They were trying to keep all of the winners secret.
    Thanks for the clarification, starrylea! I'd also add that the venue they are taping the showdowns in is located in the Los Angeles area, one of the most populace places in the entire country. Millions and millions of people live there. I don't see how someone could have thought that the audience would be largely the same people from week to week.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayner
    Thanks for the clarification, starrylea! I'd also add that the venue they are taping the showdowns in is located in the Los Angeles area, one of the most populace places in the entire country. Millions and millions of people live there. I don't see how someone could have thought that the audience would be largely the same people from week to week.
    Because I know how comedy venues are sold--they try to pack the house and often will give discounted tickets or packages to those who come more than once. Starry even wanted to go back a second time, so you can see that the thinking isn't so "out there." This is a special circumstance in which they don't want the same audience to come back.

  4. #34
    FORT Fogey AIer_admirer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taza
    One thing to remeber that writting jokes IS NOT THAT EASY. If you wanna try there are plenty of open mikes around for you to try it. Yeah you may think it is funny BUT the only real way to test it is in front of a audience. I have heard that for every premise you try there are least ten that don't work...I think this is a little conservative!!! Once you have a premise that works then you can start playing wiht word choice, timing and act outs. A joke (for most) evovles over time. The key is in the rewrite!!!!

    If you have something that works then use it. I have sets that I use for competetions and it is pretty much the samething but hey it works!! I work on my new material in clubs or open mics that "don't count".

    NBC is editing the sets so the comics are doing the same over and over..maybe they are BUT I know that Gulman has got some "gold" that he has yet to touch.
    Yeah, but some of the comics are spending the majority of their time figuring out their strategy to get to the top 5 when they could be reviewing or concocting new material. You can tell some of them are ill-prepared. Look at the bus challenge, when Heffron and Todd, both of whom have grown on me, gave up and handed it to Ant. If you're one of those rare people, who have comedy stored in the back of your brain and possess natural wit, then you'll adjust to your surroundings. If you're like Dat, you may have the same material, but at least you work at it. I give credit to John, Gary, and Alonzo who spend the majority of the house time doing things other than making alliances.
    "The difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make sense."
    Good luck to the Good Guys on the Inferno!

  5. #35
    Cheers sweetie!!! Zaaam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pg13
    Hey Sue Murphy--do the Feck-Lor bit!
    Sue Murphy is absolutely hillarious!!!
    I never heard the feck-Lor bit, what is it???
    leave the gun...take the canolis - The Godfather

  6. #36
    Pillow Biting Pundit navycake's Avatar
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    I agree that the music analogy does not work in regards to repeating material.

    The two art forms work for completely different reasons.

    People will enjoy a piece of music because they feel pleasure upon hearing a certain melody, beat, harmony, or string of lyrics. This is why the music of The Beatles will live forever, and Beatles tribute bands will always be able to get bookings.

    Comedy, however, has its structure rooted in surprise. The comedian leads our minds along an expected path of thought, and then suddenly takes us in a completely unexpected direction. If he/she has the skills and timing down, we react with spontaneous laughter. It's what I call "mental sleight of hand."

    So, unless we really enjoy the comedian's persona and style of delivery, the jokes themselves are soon going to lose their comedic effect on us because we've heard it enough times to know what's coming. Surprise is gone, and therefore, the laughter.

    But if enough time passes, and we forget the punchlines, then we can be surprised again, and the jokes' power is renewed.
    Okay, kids! Who wants Navy Cake?

  7. #37
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chowderr
    I understand that comics reuse jokes. But they aren't showing that much of their material in the clips. If you add up what we have seen so far, it can't be more than 5 or 6 minutes total for each comics(maybe more for the ones that did showdowns) If they have to continue to use those same clips over and over, it must mean that they don't have anything else funny enough to show. They only have to do a five minute set for the final(if it is the same as last year) so hopefully we will see some originality. Maybe Tammy can try doing a Sicilian or mafia joke for a change.
    Yeah, but we have to be realistic about what's being tested by this show and what comics do in real life.

    Do they want the funniest natural person (or rather is the contest geared to test that regardless of what they want or claim they want)?

    Of course not. Dave Mordal, as one example, had wit out the wazoo, and could ad lib off the stage, and yes... even Vos could pretty well. But neither got to the end because that's not what was tested.

    Now I've always maintained that Dat sucked donkey parts because not only did he repeat jokes (like they all did) but that the nature of the jokes in his set were all variations of EACH OTHER. So really the only way they can prove versatility in this crappy format is variance in their own set--and likely as not "America" (wait... I'm sorry... America has no vote till the end... I mean... "L.A.") just won't get it.

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
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  8. #38
    pop culture whore pg13's Avatar
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    Defending my own musical analogy

    Quote Originally Posted by navycake
    I agree that the music analogy does not work in regards to repeating material.

    The two art forms work for completely different reasons.

    People will enjoy a piece of music because they feel pleasure upon hearing a certain melody, beat, harmony, or string of lyrics. This is why the music of The Beatles will live forever, and Beatles tribute bands will always be able to get bookings.

    Comedy, however, has its structure rooted in surprise. The comedian leads our minds along an expected path of thought, and then suddenly takes us in a completely unexpected direction. If he/she has the skills and timing down, we react with spontaneous laughter. It's what I call "mental sleight of hand."

    So, unless we really enjoy the comedian's persona and style of delivery, the jokes themselves are soon going to lose their comedic effect on us because we've heard it enough times to know what's coming. Surprise is gone, and therefore, the laughter.

    But if enough time passes, and we forget the punchlines, then we can be surprised again, and the jokes' power is renewed.
    I don't think I ever meant to suggest that "comedy=music" in every way...and in defending the general analogy I made, I risk throwing this whole thing WAY off topic...

    However, let me offer these specific anecdotes:

    ---Much like when a band begins to play a beloved hit song, the crowd cheers upon their recognition of it...I've seen comedy audiences cheer Jim Gaffigan when he goes into his "Manatee" bit. I've seen people nudge the person they're seating with, smile and nod when the bit starts. I've seen people "lip synching" the bit with Jim.

    --I've seen people leave shows of fairly well-known comics complaining that they didn't do the signature bit from their last special..."that's what they came to see."

    --As far as Beatles Tributes bands go, two words--"Gallagher II."

    --There ARE comics who do impressions of other comics--even doing those comics material!

    As someone who worked for many years in the music industry before beginning to do comedy, the fact is that not everyone likes "music" because of its musical properties--some people like the "comfort" of what they've seen/heard before; and that is the same with comedy--some people like it to share something they already know that they like...

    This is why certain comedy albums cell, certain HBO specials still get high ratings on repeat viewings...and why certain cult comics, especially character or prop comics, can build an entire career on one never-changing act. (John Pinette--we get it, you're hungry!)

    I still love hearing music from bands that challenge me...and I love comics who are constantly working new material... That doesn't mean that's what other people want from their music or their comedy...in fact, statistics indicate that what sells in both comedy and music is what people already know and what they already like...or seems like something they already like, not something new or fresh.

    Otherwise, how could Mike Myers have a career?


    pg--seattle

    PS--I can't even remember why I compared music and comedy, so maybe we just let this drop?

  9. #39
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    People don't know how hard it is to craft, polish a good joke. This show has burned out everyone's material (except for the prolific ones who could afford to do every show with different bits) and has made Dat Phan and Ant's bad material even worse b/c they repeat it so many times. I wouldn't mind watching Ralphie, Kathleen, Alonzo repeat their well-crafted jokes... I get irritated when the bad jokes are being repeated over and over again.

  10. #40
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olympus
    People don't know how hard it is to craft, polish a good joke. This show has burned out everyone's material (except for the prolific ones who could afford to do every show with different bits) and has made Dat Phan and Ant's bad material even worse b/c they repeat it so many times. I wouldn't mind watching Ralphie, Kathleen, Alonzo repeat their well-crafted jokes... I get irritated when the bad jokes are being repeated over and over again.
    Well then the real target of your anger is clear--the editors and producers of this show--with honorable mention to Jay Mohr and HIS crappy comedy.

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

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