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  1. #21
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Why does this issue keep coming up over and over and over and over and over? We should just pin this topic to the top of the forum as an example. I think we repeat more than the show.

    The show edits creatively. It's a given that they ALL repeat, they all did last year except Dave Mordal (who paid the price), and that we see unequal amounts of repeating due to a number of factors:

    a.) who the producers want to show in a good light
    b.) who has "hooks" or pauses in their material which prevent or encourage the ability to edit aggressively and show different portions. For example, in many cases it's outright impossible to edit out the opening lines of an act--so if a comic doesn't realize that and does identical openings instead of simply shuffling the order of his or her jokes... he or she is pretty much locked into a lot of seeming "repeats".
    c.) just plain randomness

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

  2. #22
    FORT Fogey
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    Well, the issue is new to me--I didn't see the first one. But if they keep up with the repeated stuff, I won't be the last viewer standing.

  3. #23
    pop culture whore pg13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoViewer
    That's exactly my point--if their goal is to get more viewers, they're not going to do it by showing me the same material over and over. In essence, they're giving me a rerun every week.
    But you and millions of Americans ARE still watching LCS every week...and by the time you're so annoyed that you won't watch it anymore, the summer will be over and it'll be back to NBC MUST SEE TUESDAY, NEXT UP "SCRUBS!" so they are under no impetus to change anything. Maybe what they're offering is EXACTLY what America wants?



    I've already explained my logic on this--I think that a lot of the people going to see the shows probably live in the area and purchased a run. THey're probably seeing 5 shows. If the same comic came up again and gave the exact same set, I'd be flat out bored. I'd vote against them just so I could see a new comic with new jokes. But that point is highly contingent on people going to see multiple shows--I could be way off there..
    I'd say that's a pretty big conjecture to think that the same people are going to the showdowns each week. If it's Los Angeles, they probably get their crowds the way any tv show does...and it'll be a bunch of fairly random tourists picking up a flyer or having contacted a "we want to be an audience member" ticket agency.

    The bottom line is...in the showdowns, the people in that theatre vote A or B, Bonnie or John, Tammy or Todd. Who knows WHY they vote the way they do, but they vote...and if people are bored with what they see in the theatre, they'd vote (assuming that the producers actually use the audience's vote and I guess we shouldn't just automatically assume that, right?)

    One thing I noticed--something I've been conscious of ever since hearing how poorly the "audio sweetening" was done during Jay Mohr's set at last year's finals--was that there was a laugh track added during Tammy's showdown set. I didn't notice it as much during Todd's set--but I'll check it on the rerun on Saturday. Again, OUR opinion is so based on the editing and the post-production that it's hard to be certain about anything regarding this show.

    Apples and oranges, but she does write new stuff and people do expect more. Can you imagine going to a Celine Dion concert and just hearing Titanic--that's all--for 3 hours? (That's worse than Sarte's No Exit.) If she wants to continue to get fans, she continues to write new music--it's common sense.
    You've put Celine Dion and common sense into the same topic. AWK!

    Poor explanation on my part and I could salvage the analogy, but let me try it a different way.

    Would you NOT go to a concert for a band where you knew most of their hits? There are TONS of bands who perform the same songs night after night...some of them even have fans who see them at every step of the way... Most of them are bands that have been around for awhile, and while they might record new albums, nobody wants to hear new songs...they just want the hits.

    There are comedians like that...Gallagher, Don Rickles, Rodney Dangerfield...and even Jerry Seinfeld was in danger of that until he took the brave move and ditched the act he worked 20+ years on to start fresh (as shown in "Comedian")

    Hey Howie Mandell--do the thing where you blow the hospital glove off your head!
    Hey Dana Gould--do the telephone answering machine bit!
    Hey Robin Williams--do the improv Shakespeare thing!
    Hey Jim Gaffigan--we want the Manatee!
    Hey Paula Poundstone--do the cat jokes!
    Hey Richard Lewis--do the nervous guy thing!
    Hey Bobcat Goldthwait--do the rrrrrrraaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAooooow voice!
    Hey Gilbert Gottfried--squint your eyes and yell!
    Hey Sue Murphy--do the Feck-Lor bit!
    Hey Jeff Dunham--we want the Woozle named Peanut!
    Hey Dat Phan--do the crazy mom voice!
    Hey Ralphie May--do the white guy talking black thing!
    Hey Dave Chapelle--do the black guy talking white thing!
    Hey Lewis Black--get frustrated about water!
    Hey Steven Wright--tell me another crazy one liner!
    Hey Tim Allen--AR! AR! AR! ARR!!
    Hey Jake Johannson--bug out your eyes on a stuttered punchline!
    Hey Mitch Hedburg--Mitch? Mitch? Dude...where's Mitch?

    My point is that most comedic acts remain fairly static--rare are the comics that are totally original and unique each time out...even rarer ar the comics who are original and unique each time out and are consistenly funny. Even those who are GOOD at writing can deliver the same set for months, years, decades at a time. It is the nature of the beast...and it is exposed in a show like this. Not every good stand-up is terribly original or inventive...and the process (the stand-up comedy industry) tends to favor the persistent more than the wildly original. Good, solid acts are more honed and crafted over time than most people could ever imagine.


    You make good points, but I still think they should have to write and perform new material each week.
    Thank you...and it would be great if they did that--only then, it would be either Last Comic Writer Standing...or Last Improv Peformer Standing. (And don't get me started on whether or not the "Who's Line Is It Anyway" crew are improv'ing...)

    pg--seattle
    PS--Once, in my stillborn comedy career, have I heard "Hey pg! Do the Goblin Commander bit!" I smiled and then launched into a drunken version of "Freebird"--it's the same thing.

  4. #24
    pop culture whore pg13's Avatar
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    Like hungry baby eagles wanting to feed...

    Quote Originally Posted by navycake
    Regarding "rules"....

    One such rule that I agree with -- for road comics -- is not to repeat material when you re-book a previously played club. So, if you get asked back often at a particular club, you're going to have to do lots of writing or the bits will get stale.

    However, after two or three years, local audiences have usually turned over, and the comic is somewhat safe returning to older gags. Then again, if the comic has had many national TV appearances, then whatever material they've been performing on TV should probably be shelved.
    I can't say that rule is enforced. I've performed with Jim Gaffigan and Jake Johannson...both of them did pretty much the same exact set that they did 6 months previously (which is odd, because my opening set for at least 6 of the 8 shows I worked with them was different each time...I guess I'm playing by the rules and they're...famous...or good...or something...whatever.) You can actually tell that people LIKED the fact that Gaffigan does much of the same material as on his Comedy Central special... (See previous message for reasons why. "FREEBIRD! FREEBIRD!!!") Jake surprised me because he's changed so much from ten years ago...and his act seemed very fresh to me the first time I worked with him...but then he came back and he's doing jokes about the blackout...which were timely the first time through, not so much this time...

    On the other hand, I worked twice with Dave Mordal and his sets were often filled with solid "written that day" material mixed with what must be a huge amount of "worked only in Minnesota over the past ten years" material supply.

    Again, I'm not slamming Jim or Jake--love them, love working with them...would recommend that everyone see them... But "new material" isn't as easily come by as I would have guessed before starting out.

    pg--seattle
    PS--"You don't need carpet, you need an area rug!"--Taylor Negron

  5. #25
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Hey Howie Mandell--do the thing where you blow the hospital glove off your head!
    Howie quit doing that after it almost killed him.

    You make good points, but I still think they should have to write and perform new material each week.
    No. This is only even close to fair (or possible) if they are given a three month or more period after being picked for the show before the part in the house starts. People don't write comedy that fast. Jay Leno needs an army just to write 3 minutes of jokes a night.

    "You don't rehearse Mr. T, you just turn him loose."
    -----Sylvester Stallone, on Mr. T-----

  6. #26
    FORT Fogey
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krom
    No. This is only even close to fair (or possible) if they are given a three month or more period after being picked for the show before the part in the house starts. People don't write comedy that fast. Jay Leno needs an army just to write 3 minutes of jokes a night.
    And even then some jokes fall flat. And remember if that happens he has a band to banter with to try to get the audience laughing again. And the band has all kinds of back-up tricks to help Jay out when he needs it.
    The lesson... comedy is reaally, really hard!

  7. #27
    FORT Regular starrylea's Avatar
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    To answer the "some audience members must have attended more than one taping":

    You weren't allowed to. I went with one group of people and we had such a great time we tried to go again but the producers had said they didn't want anyone who had already attended a taping... they wanted as few spoilers getting out as possible.

    For instance if you went to one taping that had say Bonnie and John and then you went to another taping a couple of days later and that one also had John, you would obviously know that John was the winner of the earlier match up. They were trying to keep all of the winners secret.

  8. #28
    FORT Fogey AIer_admirer's Avatar
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    What are they doing in the house? Go write some jokes, folks! Even though I thought it was weird, I was interested in Dat's notebook last season, including the measurement of laughs per minute. I didn't know whether to laugh or be weirded out. I've only seen Jay, Alonzo, and Gary writing what I assume were jokes down. They don't have to write them down, but they could at least think out some more. I know some comics like Jay have a bunch stored up in their head, but the majority of the house time seems to be the forming of alliances. Here's hoping the material trumps the machinations.

    Oh, also wanted to note that it IS good to use material you know works, but should that stifle creativity? Maybe Todd should've brought his knives and did that bit...hey, it's more original than half of Tammy's jokes!
    Last edited by AIer_admirer; 07-01-2004 at 01:24 AM.
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  9. #29
    D'oh chowderr's Avatar
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    I understand that comics reuse jokes. But they aren't showing that much of their material in the clips. If you add up what we have seen so far, it can't be more than 5 or 6 minutes total for each comics(maybe more for the ones that did showdowns) If they have to continue to use those same clips over and over, it must mean that they don't have anything else funny enough to show. They only have to do a five minute set for the final(if it is the same as last year) so hopefully we will see some originality. Maybe Tammy can try doing a Sicilian or mafia joke for a change.
    "Alcohol: the cause of and solution to all of life's problem's"

  10. #30
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    One thing to remeber that writting jokes IS NOT THAT EASY. If you wanna try there are plenty of open mikes around for you to try it. Yeah you may think it is funny BUT the only real way to test it is in front of a audience. I have heard that for every premise you try there are least ten that don't work...I think this is a little conservative!!! Once you have a premise that works then you can start playing wiht word choice, timing and act outs. A joke (for most) evovles over time. The key is in the rewrite!!!!

    If you have something that works then use it. I have sets that I use for competetions and it is pretty much the samething but hey it works!! I work on my new material in clubs or open mics that "don't count".

    NBC is editing the sets so the comics are doing the same over and over..maybe they are BUT I know that Gulman has got some "gold" that he has yet to touch.

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