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Thread: 6/29 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #191
    pop culture whore pg13's Avatar
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    This is "Last Comic Standing" not "Nicest Comic Standing."

    (Thank you Mr. Mordal, your royalty check is in the mail.)



    Here's the deal. Comedians say AWFUL, HORRIBLE, SICK, TWISTED, OFFENSIVE, POLITICALLY INCORRECT and SOCIALLY UNACCEPTABLE THINGS. The only rule is...is it funny?

    Is it funny?

    The key to comedy is that it is about building up tension in the set up that is released in the punchline. Vulgar words are easy ways to build up tension...and they can be effective in releasing that tension. Pushing the envelope and pressing peoples buttons is part of the comedic art--not everyone pushes past the edge, and not everyone feels compelled to push people very far past their audience's comfort zone.

    I have laughed at things that comics have said that I feel would have been reprehensible had they been said in any other setting... As a comic myself, I've said things on stage that I can't believe I've said...all in going for a laugh.

    Comics, on their own, often take this button pushing and envelope pushing to an extreme...assuming that other comics have a tough enough skin to accept it, and are aware that these things are being said to be funny--even if the joke, eventually, isn't fair or decent.

    CONJECTURE TIME: I don't know Todd Glass but seeing him on the show makes me think that he used a common epithet for a gay man in the course of making a joke. Ant complained...and in complaining, he used a common epithet for a black man. Corey complained and a brouhaha ensued.

    If Todd was making a joke, the other comics probably accepted his use of the term--even if it was in poor taste or was offensive--because he was using it in making a joke. Ant, however, wasn't making a joke...he was explaining a point...so, Corey doesn't shrug it off.

    (Oh, don't get me wrong...Corey, to his own admission, isn't the most gay-friendly man in the world and was probably upset that gay and black were being compared with each other...and had there not already been some drama between the two of them, one of them might have backed down a bit quicker than they seemed to on the bus. Whatever was going on...it wasn't comedy and it probably isn't an issue best debated in the guise of a stand-up comedy based reality show.)

    Jay Mohr has said that his original vision of the show was to produce television that was like how comics were around each other when they weren't on stage--and they rip into each other and say rude things and do stupid stuff... Todd Glass is what he wanted.

    That's not what America wanted--they wanted in-house drama, rooting for the young attractive "picked-on" underdog and "how will the other comics react when they see who's returned from the showdown?" moments.

    America is getting the show it wants. Todd Glass, meanwhile, went back on the road, headlined comedy clubs...making people giggle, roll their eyes, hold their hands over their mouths and order more drinks.

    pg--seattle

    PS--"Mike Birbiglia"

  2. #192
    examination of what addikted's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AIer_admirer
    My only thing is that Ant should've said "the N word" instead of the full word. I certainly don't think he's a racist, but he could be more considerate. After all, he didn't even say the c word when Bonnie said it. Seems odd to me.

    In my experience, the n-word is off limits in any way shape or form. There is a double standard compared to any homosexual slurs (which I don't consider acceptable either), in that society has now become desensitized to heterosexual people using homosexual slurs but has not become desensitized to non-African-American people using the n-word (at least not modern society). I understand the context of the slur may not have been directed towards Corey, but Ant should've known better than to use the word two feet away from an African-American. Amongst my African-American friends, the n-word has now become a term of endearment and they view it as a possessive term (those who listen to hip-hop would know ). I don't think Corey thought the term was directed towards him, I think he had a problem with a white person using the word, period. I also find it hypocritical that Ant had such a problem with Bonnie using a derogatory term on network tv, and doesn't censor himself from tossing around slurs. All in all, it's just a big misunderstanding, and what would reality tv be without misunderstandings and overreactions?
    Last edited by addikted; 06-30-2004 at 06:28 PM.

  3. #193
    Pillow Biting Pundit navycake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pg13
    Here's the deal. Comedians say AWFUL, HORRIBLE, SICK, TWISTED, OFFENSIVE, POLITICALLY INCORRECT and SOCIALLY UNACCEPTABLE THINGS. The only rule is...is it funny?


    Jay Mohr has said that his original vision of the show was to produce television that was like how comics were around each other when they weren't on stage--and they rip into each other and say rude things and do stupid stuff...
    Well, that's a good idea! Too bad Colin Quinn already beat him to it. It's called TOUGH CROWD on Comedy Central, right after THE DAILY SHOW at 11:30 PM.

    IMHO, political correctness and comedy don't mix, and that's why you saw all that conflict. Comics are supposed to be thick-skinned because they make a living making fun of everything, including other cultures, genders, you name it. Shame on both Ant and Corey for blowing that all out proportion.

    Regarding use of the n-word or the f-word... certainly most people agree these terms are extremely hurtful, and nobody should go around calling or referring to black people or gay people as such. However, I am of the opinion that it is no crime whatsoever to UTTER either word in the context of discussing the words themselves. I think it's silly for a person to get all bent out of shape when the words themselves are used as the subject of a discussion, rather than as an insulting label to describe another person.

    For example, let's pretend that "fuzzyface" is as offensive to bearded men as the n-word is to black people. Would it then be fair to jump all over a person who made the statement, "It's wrong to call bearded men "fuzzyface"? The image of every man with a goatee in hearing range, jumping up and down, shouting "He said fuzzyface! He said fuzzyface! Ostracize him!" is ludicrous.

    A gun can also cause damage to people, but we don't all have hissy fits whenever somebody buys one. It's only when the gun is used illegally for the purpose of harming others that we become righteously offended.

    NC
    Okay, kids! Who wants Navy Cake?

  4. #194
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    Just so everyone knows the term faggot comes from the time when gay people were burned at the stake using bundles of sticks or faggots. I think you will agee that this makes it a very offensive term.

  5. #195
    The Girl With FORT-itude saltyj's Avatar
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    I just want to throw in my two cents about the elimination. I was very sorry to see Todd go, but that won't keep me from still liking Tammy. As for the disagreement between Ant and Corey, Ant should have apologized to Corey (instead of just letting it continue on and on) and Corey apologized to Ant...I'm just glad that they did eventually settle it instead of turning it into, as Kathleen put it, an episode of The Real World. We don't need TWO Pucks running around...
    Viva La Vie Boheme!

  6. #196
    pop culture whore pg13's Avatar
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    Trolling, trolling, trolling...

    Quote Originally Posted by Striderca
    Just so everyone knows the term faggot comes from the time when gay people were burned at the stake using bundles of sticks or faggots. I think you will agee that this makes it a very offensive term.
    First of all, I suggested above that a stand-up comedy based reality show is not the best venue to debate this...believe me when I say that an internet message board for fans of a stand-upc comedy based reality show is GEOMETRICALLY less of a proper venue to debate the meanings of words and their usage...

    However, in case you're not trolling for a meaningless fight and are actually believing what you read on the first hit that google gave you for the meaning of this word, try this alternate suggestion on for size...

    http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mfaggot.html

    Words have power. Giving words more power than they deserve can be as dangerous as the words themselves.

    pg--seattle

  7. #197
    Pillow Biting Pundit navycake's Avatar
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    Well, the fix is in. I don't think it's any accident that the immunity challenge just happened to be something that Ant excelled at... and without even having to try to be funny, either. Here's how I think it went down... in screenplay format, since the whole show is really a work of fiction after all....

    "KATZ 'N' JAMMER"

    by NavyCake


    FADE IN:

    EXT. BEVERLY HILLS OFFICE BUILDING – DAY

    Traffic is heavy at the intersection of Beverly Drive and Wilshire. Mercedes, Jaguars, and Lincoln Town Cars all push the envelope and make their left turns long after the arrow turns red.

    INT. BARRY KATZ' OFFICE – DAY

    BARRY KATZ, 50, head of a medium-sized artists management company, sits in his high-backed, leather chair, bending paper clips into cheap sculpture.

    Across the desk from him, seated cross-legged in a plush chair, is ANT, 30ish, a gay, hack stand-up comic sporting a surly expression.

    ANT
    I do appreciate everything you've
    done for me, Barry. But you and I
    both know I can't survive in that
    house toe-to-toe with the other nine.

    Katz flicks the paper clip sculptures onto the carpet and leans forward.

    KATZ
    How about we bring back the immunity
    challenge. That should at least get
    you to the final five.

    ANT
    But I'm not funny enough! I'd never
    win immunity.

    KATZ
    You won't have to be funny. Answer me
    a question. What'd you do before
    becoming a comic?

    ANT
    Well, I played catcher back in high
    school.

    KATZ
    Really? What made you wanna play
    baseball?

    ANT
    Who said anything about baseball?

    KATZ
    (awkward pause)
    Huh? Oh.

    Ant shoots Barry one of his smarmy smirks and adjusts his sitting position.

    ANT
    Oh, I used to be a tour guide at
    Universal Studios!

    KATZ
    That's it! We'll make the immunity
    challenge about being a tour guide.
    It'll be a cake walk for you.

    ANT
    Yay! I'm staying in the house!
    I'm staying in the house!
    (beat)
    Oh, but what about the next
    immunity challenge? They can't
    all be about giving tours.

    Barry leans back in his chair, swivels it around, and gazes out at the afternoon rush hour.

    KATZ
    I've got it.

    ANT
    Ooh, tell me!

    KATZ
    Well, I don't have the particulars,
    yet, but how do you feel about
    performing at a bath house in
    Laguna Beach?

    ANT
    Olympic Spa or Ciro's?

    KATZ
    Ant, you're a pistol. Now get outta
    here, I got work to do. Oh, and
    send Gary on in as you leave, will
    you?

    ANT
    Yes, daddy. Ciao!

    Ant EXITS. Barry turns to his computer and brings up the AmeriTrade website. He clicks around and purchases 5,000 shares of NBC-Universal stock.

    FADE OUT:

    Regarding last night's head-to-head:

    While I laughed much more at Todd's set, Tammy's was much more polished. Todd even seemed to blank for a second during his tried and true opening line about Mel Gibson and Fred Flintsone. Plus he did not finish on a strong laugh, which is always bad for comics. I felt it could go either way, but I was pulling for Todd because he's the ONLY person in that house even trying to be entertaining... in the house.

    The others are drop-dead boring in the house, and I can only wonder why the producers were putting so much emphasis on casting comics who would be funny in the house because it's really backfired on them. Everyone here was so sure Jay London would be a riot in the house, and he's about as funny as watching paint dry.

    This show is really getting pathetic.
    Okay, kids! Who wants Navy Cake?

  8. #198
    FORT Fogey JonasGrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cali
    I have to admit that I haven't read every post here in this thread yet. It's too early.

    Sorry if I'm repeating

    I thought Tammy was funnier than Todd. Her presentation flowed while Ron's was "jerky", like he couldn't find a rhythm.

    Although I thought the infomercial was funny and he did seem calmer in the house this week, overall he bugged me.

    What we have to remember is: even if Tammy’s material is old to us; this show was filmed in Feb/March. She is smart to use bits she knows get a laugh. Since we vote at the end, she’ll have to come up with something new to please us.

    Ant got on my nerves.

    Loved... LOVED that hefron came in saying he'd vote however the hell he wanted to. He's adorable AND funny
    The infomercial was silly but not really funny. Todd was, however, funnier than Tammy except that Todd's act tapered off in the end after having a hilarious start. Tammy's was just not that great but wasn't that bad either, it's average and no ups and downs like Todd's. So I guess if you average out the start/middle/end of their acts it would result in a tie. Unfortunately, Todd got the boot. There were a hundred people in the audience, that means there was only a difference of 8 votes. I would have given it to Todd in a tie only because he is naturally silly and he looks funnier.

  9. #199
    FORT Fogey JonasGrumby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pudman13
    I think Ant could easily have made his point without actually saying the word. It just shows that he was looking for trouble.
    Don't you guys get it? Ant wanted the spotlight out of other people especially Todd. During the yoga session, Todd was sleeping (and snoring) so Ant had to do something to get the attention off of Todd by smoking and pretending not to care as well. Then to get more tv time, he created a Tammy/Bonnie conflict with Corey. This is just one of Ant's antics. He'll do anything to win this contest, he himself said that and it probablly mean whether it is bad or good as long as he gets more air time, hence, more publicity.

  10. #200
    FORT Fan PIKATSSO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Watches2MuchTV
    maybe Todd should have used the Taco joke instead....
    FUNNY!!! Gotta kick outta this, TV person!
    My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
    -- Ashleigh Brilliant

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