Fool... but no pity.
Its the blanket accusation that comparing Phan to Cho in any way is racist that gets my ghost. I, for example, was originally comparing two comics with similar delivery, and YES, similar schtick based on Asian motherhood (pointed out exactly because there ARE so few Asian comics of note, of any heritage) and didn't dwell on theft or saying that the mothers were photocopies of each other, and in fact pointed it out as part of a discussion why I didn't find Dat's first performance funny. Cho was being used as a MEASURING stick, not as some device to bind all Asians together into some grand racist ignorant web. Cho, who did mother jokes which emphasized how Cho came from a background where people had very little restraint (and how it reflected on herself), vs. Phan, who came from a background where people are kind of a bit repressed (and people in San Diego are all racist, etc. etc.). See, not the same? THIS IS NOT COPYING. Never said so. A comparison is not an accusation of copying, or racist, in all hands.
I don't think merely posting about Cho's and Dat's accent of their mothers, which has been mentioned numerous times by Dat-haters, is done just to win an argument. There have been discussions of lesser things about this show, so please respect others opinions.
Have you ever noticed that most asian comics talk about typical asian stuff like "math" or having strict parents? But that's okay because you talk about what you know. There is nothing wrong with it.
However, in Dat's case, he is using old material that has already been presented by other comics, including Margaret Cho, who did the "Mother schtick" not because she's Asian but because it was original and funny at the time.
Dat is not original, period. Last week he told an old joke that has been recycled so many times that it can't even be left out on the curb any more.
Fool... but no pity.
The thing is that people get ethnicities mixed up all of the time (Italians and Jews, Arabs and Jews, Norweigans and Swedish, Scottish and Irish) and its a part of life. I'm sure Billy Connelly, for example, gets compared to all kinds of people--Irish, Welsh, etc. and gets fed up with it. Cho and Phan are in a tight business and are bound to be compared, mother voices or no mother voices. Saying its no real comparion, because Cho is funnier and more universal, is legitimate I think. I hope.
But yes, I'll apologize for saying that somebody's point was just to win an argument. But racism accusations are touchy without proof--it presses buttons--and Dat's whole routine on how racist people are may even be feeding discussion of this.
And to add a different log to the fire, Phan himself is frequently pulling the "asian" card and referencing generic "Asian stuff" (I know that's a loaded term) like "Kung Fu" and "Mortal Kombat" as part of his set. So he opens the door there for people to talk about him in a general fashion as Asian. It would be like Mel Brooks talking about how all old guys start to look and sound the same--he's introducing that level of discussion, and its hardly racist (or agist in my fictional case with Brooks) to mention it.
Last edited by Krom; 07-27-2003 at 03:24 PM.
It ain't easy being green
Perhaps we didn't see any black or asian contestants on "Married By America" because they have better sense than the white folk that were silly enough to be on that show.
and just with the media in general. how much do you think race plays in reality TV in general? did you notice that in the "Married by America" tv show, NONE of the contestants were either black or asian?
I don't know if that was for me, but I said it was a little bit of it, I didn't say it was the whole thing. Maybe that wasn't about me, now i'm getting defensive. Sheesh.
Originally Posted by Wolf
Last edited by zapata; 07-27-2003 at 03:29 PM.
Originally Posted by zapata
I don't dislike Dat, zapata. Personally, I felt people in the house were too harsh on him. Notice I don't comment on what he does or say in the house. Who cares? I'm all about the comedy. It's when I actually saw him do Margaret Cho's bit that set me off. Now he's lifting a line from Ralphie, getting his hair spiked up like Bobby Lee in the Vegas finals (read JonVoightScar's post), re-using the same joke at the end of his finals set that even the audience in Vegas called him out for... it's obvious he's hurting for minutes. Dave himself said he's only got 20 minutes of material. It's obvious he's not as experienced as the Rich, Ralphie, Dave, Cory and Tess. But Rob was inexperienced as well yet he maintained his originality. His attitude was, well if I go out I'm going out with my head high. Dat's attitude is, if I go out I'm gonna do whatever it takes to win, by all means necessary, even if that means stealing jokes to be the Last Comic Standing. There's no integrity in that, zapata.
Last edited by olympus; 07-27-2003 at 04:44 PM.
Well considering Dat Phan is the FIRST Asian comic that I, & I'm sure much of the USA has ever heard, I cant confirm or deny that. & If you can copyright making fun of you Mom, 75% of comics would be out of looking for a job. Many comics have poked fun of fat people before Ralphie, yet y arent u on his case 4 it?
Originally Posted by CaliGirl
i just wanted to say , that in starting the thread, i didn't mean to imply that anyone who compared dat phan to cho was a racist. but there are definitely people who do make the comparison just because they are asian, and that was more of the target of the thread.
i think i was maybe irked by some posts that seemed annoyed with having to hear about "asian" or (more offensively) "ethnic" acts. or too much "ethnic" material. like employers asking an african-american woman to not wear jewelry that is too "ethnic", etc... etc... where its more clear that the annoyance has a lot to do with simply wanting (whether intentionalyl or unintentionally) to hear about something different - or not understanding. i'm not sure. but there was a lot of posting / counter posting on other threads about this, so i thought i'd condense the issue into this one thread.
I totally agree with you, if he's doing that, he's someone with little integrity. And I was commenting on it in fun, saying Cho was visiting the mansion screaming "Stop doing my act!" But this has turned into something serious, with people out and out slurring his character for it, and the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think, well, is he REALLY DOING THAT? Or is this something we are just being led to think? I kinda want to hear his side of it before I start making a serious issue of blatant stealing. I think someone said that Dave and Geoff had made the same joke about eating the "hot dog" in the middle. Now, when I heard Geoff say that, I did remember hearing it before, but I didn't remember who had said it and I'm not sure if Dave did say it first- but you have to wonder maybe things are not what they seem and they may have an explanation- if only we heard the other side. Wayner said that Dat had posted here before, I don't remember seeing that, but I do wish we could hear something from his side about it-although a fan of his came on and defiantly said none of that was true and he did not take other people's material. I don't know- nothing on this show had been what it has seemed- it's just too easy to jump on the bandwagon and start slamming him for it without weighing everything- I mean, here you say "Dat's attitude is, if I go out I'm gonna do whatever it takes to win, by all means necessary, even if that means stealing jokes to be the Last Comic Standing." Here you make a copy of a joke and center his entire "being" around it- it's a good joke, but it would hardly make or break him- that one joke is not going to win him the competition and maybe there is a reason he is saying it- I want to give him the benefit of the doubt while at the same time realize indeed he needs to explain it. But I'm not going to base an entire portrait of his character based on such little evidence. The Cho connection as well doesn't seem to hold up- I've seen all her acts- I recognize a certain "style" but that may indeed be because they are both Asian- I mean, if he copied her jokes, he didn't copy the funny ones, which I think he would do if he really wanted to steal from her. I mean, it may be all true, but I think there's just too little evidence right now to say for sure, that's all. I really don't think he will win, anyway- I think Tess will win, if not her, then it will Ralphie. We've had the other comics come on and clear up other issues, so it's not unreasonable to assume if we heard from him, he could clear that up as well.
Originally Posted by olympus
But it's just my opinion, and I could be totally wrong - but he seems too organized and dedicated and focused in my opinion to just be some "joke stealer," but I could be wrong.
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