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  1. #9171
    Premium Member canuckinchile's Avatar
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    Re: For animal lovers

    How old are the dogs Sherri? Anyways, it sounds like they have some long standing behaviour problems. If you end up keeping them I would hire a reputable dog trainer ASAP. It is probably expensive, but it sounds like you are paying a lot already, and your house is being destroyed as well. I think the rescue center should have been upfront about their behaviour problems, but they obviously weren't. It will probably be a lot of work, good luck!

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    Resident curmudgeon Newfherder's Avatar
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    Re: For animal lovers

    Damn it. I was trying to stay off of FORT for a while to set up an April Fool joke, but Sherri's post can't be ignored.

    Sherri, call the rescue group back and DEMAND that they take the dogs back, and make it clear that you are not going to pay a boarding fee. Point out to them that they committed fraud by willfully withholding the past history of aggression. Point out to them that the fraud makes them liable for damages caused by the bulldogs to Dallas and to your possessions. Give them the choice of taking back the dogs or facing you in court (Small Claims would hear the case, so you wouldn't have legal expenses beyond the filing fee. It would also be a great case for Judge Judy. Of the court TV shows that I watch, she has the best understanding of canine behavior.) (If it looks like you might end up in court, it might also be worth paying for an hour of an attorney's time to make sure that I'm not too far off-base )

    The Newf rescue in which I participate does not take dogs that are known to be aggressive. The characteristic that defines Newfs more than any other is the sweetness of temperament, and we do NOT want to go against that image. Dogs with other behavior problems are given training BEFORE they are adopted out, and the adoptive families get a full disclosure. If for some reason the adoption doesn't work out, the Newf is taken back into Rescue and re-evaluated (and hopefully placed in another home.)
    Last edited by Newfherder; 03-10-2008 at 12:17 PM.
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  3. #9173
    MRD
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    Re: For animal lovers

    Quote Originally Posted by Newfherder;2833128;
    Damn it. I was trying to stay off of FORT for a while to set up an April Fool joke, but Sherri's post can't be ignored.

    Sherri, call the rescue group back and DEMAND that they take the dogs back, and make it clear that you are not going to pay a boarding fee. Point out to them that they committed fraud by willfully withholding the past history of aggression. Point out to them that the fraud makes them liable for damages caused by the bulldogs to Dallas and to your possessions. Give them the choice of taking back the dogs or facing you in court (Small Claims would hear the case, so you wouldn't have legal expenses beyond the filing fee. It would also be a great case for Judge Judy. Of the court TV shows that I watch, she has the best understanding of canine behavior.) (If it looks like you might end up in court, it might also be worth paying for an hour of an attorney's time to make sure that I'm not too far off-base )

    The Newf rescue in which I participate does not take dogs that are known to be aggressive. The characteristic that defines Newfs more than any other is the sweetness of temperament, and we do NOT want to go against that image. Dogs with other behavior problems are given training BEFORE they are adopted out, and the adoptive families get a full disclosure. If for some reason the adoption doesn't work out, the Newf is taken back into Rescue and re-evaluated (and hopefully placed in another home.)
    Sherri,
    I agree with Newf's advice and really go with them committing fraud and not giving you a full disclosure about the animals beforehand.

    I'm so sorry you are going through all this. And the poor dogs too. They need to be trained and it sounds like it was up to the rescue place to train and rehabilitate them and a one month quaruntine for attacking another dog is not going to keep them from attacking other dogs. This is a possible danger and lawsuit there in and of itself.

    Document the damage they've done with photos.

    Best of luck and I hope it works out for you.
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    (Who loves me will love my dog also)

  4. #9174
    Premium Member dagwood's Avatar
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    Re: For animal lovers

    Sherry, I'm with Newf on this, too. They should have disclosed the agression when you adopted them.
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  5. #9175
    kissin cousins Sherri's Avatar
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    Re: For animal lovers

    Thanks to everyone for the advice. Unfortunately, this shelter really seems to have their bases covered in the adoption contract, and part of it is my own fault. I just never expected them to adopt out dogs with such horrible behavior and aggression problems. And now knowing they knew how bad it was and adopted them out anyway, makes me so angry. I have young grandkids that spend alot of time here and we discussed my concerns about possible aggression and they never said a word!

    So far they have done really good around the little ones but I have seen how quickly they have turned on Dallas, and it just really worries me. They have gotten kind of aggressive with my 21 year old son but I think they were in protection mode. He was fighting with his 14 year old brother and they shoved each other and they jumped at him. They did tear his jeans and sweatshirt but other than scaring the heck out of him, no real damage was done. But regardless, now knowing some of their history, it makes me really nervous.

    I feel so bad about not being sure I want to keep them. When I take in a animal, it's to give them a "forever home", but I'm not sure I can get these two turned around. I'm just worried they are more than I can handle. I talked to our vet about obediance classes but the closest ones he knows of are over an hour away and the way gas prices are, that would really hurt. He also thought seperating them might help. He thinks they are showing alot of "pack mentality", but once again I feel guilty for considering getting rid of one of them. Not to mention, I don't know which one I would choose to keep. There is good and bad about both of them.

    Right now I'm just so frustrated I really don't know what to do. There's no doubt in my mind they have been abused. If one of my boys takes of a belt in front of them, they duck and cower. That makes me so angry and I want so badly to help them, but at four years old I don't know if those old behaviors can be changed. And I also have to think of Dallas and Misty, I don't know how I would forgive myself if anything serious happened to them.

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    Re: For animal lovers

    I just never expected them to adopt out dogs with such horrible behavior and aggression problems
    And therein lies THEIR problem. The reasonable expectation is that the dogs are fit to be adopted, and since they KNEW that the dogs are aggressive, it is unconscionable for them to not disclose it. Also, IF they properly screen prospective adoptive families, they would NOT place these dogs in a family with other dogs.

    So far they have done really good around the little ones but I have seen how quickly they have turned on Dallas, and it just really worries me. They have gotten kind of aggressive with my 21 year old son but I think they were in protection mode. He was fighting with his 14 year old brother and they shoved each other and they jumped at him. They did tear his jeans and sweatshirt but other than scaring the heck out of him, no real damage was done. But regardless, now knowing some of their history, it makes me really nervous.
    DO NOT LET THESE DOGS AROUND LITTLE ONES!! They are aggressive and unstable!
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  7. #9177
    Anarchist AJane's Avatar
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    Re: For animal lovers

    Sherri, I'm so very sorry to hear about your new pets. Your story about the shelter infuriates me - I wonder how many of their unsatisfied clients dump their animals at humane societies or on the roadside somewhere.

    And I'm 100% with Newf on his warning - please don't let those dogs around your little grandchildren! I don't recall if I posted this here, but I work in admitting at an emergency room and a 13-year-old boy came in that was all ripped up and bleeding from the head, the arm, and the leg - from the family cat. The kid looked like he'd been in a fight, no lie. If a cat can do that kind of damage to a 13-year-old - and this was a big, strong-looking kid - imagine what a couple of bulldogs could do. If you have an Animal Control centre in your city, I would consider calling them.
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  8. #9178
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    Re: For animal lovers

    Sherri, I can understand your concerns and fears. I adopted my dog Chico from the local Humane Society. He was a stray, so they had almost no information on him. While he's very loving and sweet with me and my family, as the months went by he became very aggressive to strangers and other dogs. I'd never had a dog with behavioral problems before, so I was kind of at a loss. I did take him to obedience class and while that did strengthen his bond to me, it didn't make him any less aggressive to strange dogs or people.

    It's obvious to me that Chico was abused/neglected in his previous home, and it's my responsibility to protect the world from Chico's issues. I never allow him to interact with my 3 year old niece or other children, I never let strangers try to pet him, and I'm constantly vigilant of never letting him near other people's pets. This is feasible for me, I don't have kids, people, or other animals living with me (When my dog Lucius was alive, he was the "boss", and never took any crap from Chico).

    If this isn't possible for you, you sound like you have many other responsibilities besides your dogs, it may be better if you find another home for the bulldogs. As far as feeling guilty because you couldn't give your adopted dogs a permanent home, I don't think that is fair to you. You weren't informed of their aggression issues, so I feel you adopted them under false pretenses. Maybe there is a bulldog rescue organization that would be willing to take your dogs and rehabilitate them before they were placed again.

    I wish you the best of luck with this difficult situation.

  9. #9179
    MRD
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    Re: For animal lovers

    Sherri,
    I am so sorry you are going through this. I would still try to talk to the shelter and explain that you are afraid to let your grandkids around the dogs. (which I would NOT do. My daughter was in pre-school with a 3 year old that got bitten by her own dog and had over 30 stitches in her face. It was terrible) Maybe they should worry about that liability as they gave you aggressive dogs without a warning. And I would be hesitant to try to find them another home because who knows what the next home will be like or what they or the new owners would do.
    I almost hate to say this, but I'm wondering if maybe they should be put down. And I RARELY suggest that option to ANYONE. But it's not fair to you that the shelter did this and its not fair to the dogs either (which is NOT your fault). This really is the shelter's responsibility. Maybe you can ask them that if they cannot take them back to be rehabilitated, then perhaps you will have to ask your vet to put them down and see what the shelter says.
    I would be more concerned now about your family, your other dog, your grandkids and also any future family and their kids or dogs that may take on these dogs. And this is really NOT your responsibility as you have acted in good faith.

    Good luck and keep us posted. Maybe a nice long talk with your vet about this whole situation would help. He may have a suggestion or can talk to the shelter for you and give his professional opinion on the dogs to the shelter and see if that works.

    Again, I would start documenting everything the dogs have done (pictures, journal) and make notes on all phone calls with the shelter (date, time who you talked to, what you talked about, etc.) and the vet.

    I just am very leary after hearing all this. If those dogs hurt someone, you are the one now that is liable when it really should be the shelter.

    ETA: everyone please don't jump on me for the suggestion of putting down the dogs. It is a scary situation and I hate to see animals put down, but maybe if the shelter sees that Sherri has no other option, they may be willing to work with her and more importantly work with these dogs so they can be rehabilitated and end up in a home where they are not a danger.

    I feel for everyone involved. But as much as we all love animals, the safetly of the humans needs to come first. And the safety of the other dog in the home as well.

    But if Michael Vick's dogs can be rehabilitated, these can too, but it should be the shelter's responsibility not Sherri's. They knew the dogs were aggressive.
    Last edited by MRD; 03-10-2008 at 11:07 PM.
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    Re: For animal lovers

    I have chased all three very bad dogs all over the neighborhood this morning. In my funky pink flannel pj's and purple fuzzy slippers. Waldo started it, Bogie followed him and Rosie who is normally good followed me following them. I chased them up the hill and down. Then Rosie ran to join them. I was freaking out becasue they got in the street. There was a HS kid waiting on the corner watching all this and I'm sure laughing at me. Then the bus came and Rosie almost got on it with him. So now a bus full of HS kids is lauhing at me and I could just about do something really mean to Waldo as he kept going and looking back at me like he was laughing.
    They've all been really good lately until this morning. I swear Waldo was doing the doggy equivalant of giving me the finger.

    Spring fever has hit them all.
    And Miss Rosie is too old for this (you'd never know, she's as spry as ever) today being her 11th birthday and all.

    Now the rest of the day, they will go out one at a time which I hate, but I hate chasing them even more. They've been so good lately until this morning.

    What's funny is that Waldo is the dog at the bottom of the totem pole as far as pecking order goes in this house, but outside, he is THE one that leads the others into trouble and they follow him willingly. So how smart are they following the big dummy?
    Que me amat, amet et canem meum
    (Who loves me will love my dog also)

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