FORT Koffee Klatch

[MRD]

THanks everyone. I appreciate everyone's comments and you guys have some great advice. I was just shocked and wanted to know if I was just taking it pesonally.

PGM, its not a reward event it's really a social event. It's a woman's event that is held monthly. Everyone brings a dish or drinks, so its not lack of funding either as we all share in the meal.

It's just the one woman and maybe one or two of her friends. I am going to have a word with the head of Pres. Women who is super friendly and discreet and ask her what she thinks. And here is the weird thing. I was invited to this group before we became members. We were attending church, but had not joined yet. So it's just strange that they'd want to exclude anyone. Personally I have never really gotten along with this woman. We are polite, but we've never "hit it off" and she is very standoffish to me. Makes me wonder if she's worried about what kind of "friends" I have.
We love this church and everyone else has been super friendly and supportive, but as with anything, there is a small "elite" group that think they're in charge and I'm reasonably sure that its a combo of all this.

SRS, I am appalled at what was done to your sister and nephew. If the minister had a problem with it, he should have taken it up with your sister in private and not during the ceremony. I may be wrong, but isn't a dedication ceremony where the parents pledge to bring the child up in good faith and as a Christian, bringing him to church and sunday school? We have infant baptism, and that's basically what we have to do and from what little I know about dedications, I'm thinking its similar to promise to teach the child and bring him up in the church. That seems to me to be the important thing here, not your sister's marital status. I don't blame you for not going back and I'd tell the minister exactly why too. How awful and embarrassing for your sister.

I had a good friend from highschool die about 10 years after we graduated. At the funeral the minister basically said that he was not sure if my friend was saved, so therefore did not think he was going to heaven. What a comfort for his family huh? He went on in this vein and used that to basically preach that we should all get right in our lives because you didn't want to die like our friend and not be saved. A group of us that had all been friends for a long time were so outraged, we almost got up and walked out, but stayed out of respect for the family. Too bad the preacher didn't have respect for the family. I vowed then and there never to set foot in that church again for anything and I did not. I spoke with my minister at the time and he was also appalled at what had been said, but knowing the other minister said he wasn't surprised. He then told me that when he stood in the pulpit he preferred to think that everyone in his congregation was going to heaven and that this minister thought the other way and used scare tactics in his sermons.

[justCoz]

MRD perhaps you could go to the head person by asking her what to do about your friend since you already did invite her and can they make an exception by still allowing her to come, that you didn't realize it was a "member's only" meeting. That way it looks less like you are telling on someone. It also would give the main woman in charge the ability to either explain to you the reason for the members only, or fix the problem (while clueing her into what you were told!)

It sounds crazy for it to be members only when it is a function you have once a month. Reiterating what others have told you, but most churches encourage you to bring friends.

[MRD]

I just heard back from the President of Presbyterian Women in our church. She is more or less in charge of all women's groups, worship, bible studies, etc.
And here is her reply:

"No – I am with you. That sounds crazy. I have never heard of a thing like that. I have no idea where she got that notion or what her reasons could possibly be.

It makes no sense to me why a church would turn anyone (member or not) for any reason to attend anything. Aren’t we supposed to be welcoming and eager to bring in newcomers? I can’t help but think of that saying “What would Jesus Do?” – I think Jesus would love to have new people in his group. Isn’t that the point of the group – to build a strong circle of ladies to grow in faith with one another and enjoy Christian fellowship??"

She has become a fairly good friend and I trust her to be discreet, but she did mention that maybe its time for a memo to go out encouraging everyone, once again to be open and welcoming to new people regardless of what groups they are interested in.
She said she thought she could do this in a way that it would not come back to me and its a message that perhaps other groups in the church need to hear as well.

Thanks all for the advice and encouragement. Isn't it always the way that one or two people can just spoil things for everyone else by a sense of "self-importance" ?

[ScoutMom]

I'm glad you got this resolved. There's always a couple of bad apples in the barrel!

[Lois Lane]

oh I had a church issue to! my sister had my nephews dedication at our church saturday morning, and the pastor proceeded to apologize to the congregation for her having a baby out of wedlock...

I haven't been in this thread for a while and am just catching up...but this shocked me. Unless he got her pregnant, it is not for him to apologize for anything she did that he finds offensive. Having a baby is a blessing, and while the ideal situation is for the mother to be married to the father, have a nice house, have the baby, have enough money to raise the family etc., life doesn't always work out that way. How dare he apologize on her behalf... It never fails to surprise me how some of the most unChristian people are Christians...

myrosiedog, that woman trying to exclude your friend sounds like a witch. If the event was cost prohibitive, she could've mentioned that in a discreet way so that you could've helped raise funds. Church was the one place where I assumed that there was no "members only" clause. I've tagged along to the services of many friends' churchs and always felt welcomed, though it was obvious I didn't "belong."

I also can't believe that minister saying that your high school friend was basically going to hell. That's a nice thing to say at someone's funeral. What has this world come to?

[srs_in_Oregon]

I haven't been in this thread for a while and am just catching up...but this shocked me. Unless he got her pregnant, it is not for him to apologize for anything she did that he finds offensive. Having a baby is a blessing, and while the ideal situation is for the mother to be married to the father, have a nice house, have the baby, have enough money to raise the family etc., life doesn't always work out that way. How dare he apologize on her behalf... It never fails to surprise me how some of the most unChristian people are Christians...

my thoughts exactly..and my sisters thuoghts..she was up there with her son, getting ready to dedicate him to the church, and the pastor does this...it wasnt a dedication, it was a shaming..

[MRD]

You know, I continue to be shocked and surprised by people and their actions.
At this point in my life I shouldn't be, but for some reason I continue to try to see the good in most people and when it doesn't happen, I am yet again just amazed.

And I am also continually amazed at what some Chrisitans do in the name of God. My sister is a prime example. I have always said she has to tell you what a good Christian she is because otherwise you'd never know by her words and actions. I have learned that if you go around bragging about something then you run the risk of doing or being exactly the opposite of what you are crowing about.

I have my own set of beliefs and my own faith and most of the time I keep it to myself as I consider it to be personal. But the actions of some so called good church people are not always so good even though they themselves believe them to be.

Passing judgement is one of the things that I find in a lot of churches and intolerance as well. I am not going to preach, but in my learnings and beliefs, I believe that Jesus taught tolerance and acceptance of all people including those that were considered less than sparkling clean souls. And judgement is supposedly reserved for God.
Yet both judgement and intolerance seem to be alive and well in some churches and people despite these teachings.
And yes, I'm probably just as guilty of being judgemental as the people I condemned above. But I do try to be tolerant as much as possible. That's not always easy either.
I just hope that at some point these people realize just how they have been acting and move to correct it. Again, I hold out hope for the good of most people.

Thus endeth my lesson for today.

[Stargazer]

I know that there are many hypocrites and unpleasant people involved in churches. However, I just wanted to say that I've also seen a great deal of love and support come from churches. I've always been more spiritual than religious, but I did grow up going to church and saw them do a lot of good. Its sad that a few bad seeds here and there can spoil a church for everyone, though.

When my dad was killed in a car accident, I saw both sides of the church. On one hand, there was an endless stream of people from my mom's congregation coming by the house. They brought food, tissues, ice, paper towels, you name it. They offered sympathy and comfort to our family. However, there were some in the church that insisted on preaching to my mother about how my dad wasn't saved (that particular church believes you must be baptized to be saved and my dad wasn't), so it was unfortunate that he went to hell. The minister even had a sermon in the following weeks, citing examples like my dad, that even if someone is a good person, they have to be "saved" or risk hellfire. Even if I believed that (which I don't), I would have had the decency not to torture a grieving widow with it. :nono I was stunned at the lack of compassion.

So, as I said, there are good and not-so-good people in every church. The bad ones always seem to do so much to sully the reputation of churches in general. It's sad, really, considering how much good that churches often do in a community.

[ScoutMom]

I know a man who is affiliated with my son's Boy Scout troop. He's actually one of the leaders. He runs around telling everyone that he's a deacon in his church. I guess he's trying to impress them. The really said this is that you'd never know he was Christian if he didn't tell everyone. You'd never know it by his behavior. He's very sneaky and nasty. It's people like that who give Christians a bad rap.

[srs_in_Oregon]

I know that there are many hypocrites and unpleasant people involved in churches. However, I just wanted to say that I've also seen a great deal of love and support come from churches. I've always been more spiritual than religious, but I did grow up going to church and saw them do a lot of good. Its sad that a few bad seeds here and there can spoil a church for everyone, though.

I agree with this to, I wont go to that church..but Im still going to go to church..I also believe fully that you need to not base your faith on the people you meet in church, because they are human to.