Relationship Challenged

[Lois Lane]

I read it differently. I think he meant not to go through the motions of taking out your wallet to pretend you were willing to pay half. Someone who really does want to pay half will decidedly take out the wallet and the money and insist. Those who do not will really seem to just go through the motions.

Exactly. I know some women like this. They'll brag about how they didn't pay for anything. When two of my friends were dating each other, she'd call me up and tell me what a great time they had; and then my guy friend would tell me that she had no problems spending HIS money, but whenever she offered to pay for anything, it was always on the cheap end. (And she made way more money than he did.) I have another friend who's slow to open her wallet, regardless of whether she's out on a date or out with her girlfriends. My feeling is, if a woman is adamant about never paying on a date, then don't go through the motions. The guy will know where he stands and either he'll be fine with it or he won't. Some of my guy friends were adamant that they always pay--just how they were brought up (and they're in their 30's, not their 70's) and it made them feel more comfortable.

When I dated, I would let the guy pick up the first check if I knew I'd be going out with him again and if he insisted. I knew I'd have an opportunity to reciprocate and take HIM out somewhere on a second date at least. If I knew it was a one-date only thing, I'd pay half or the full check just to get out of there and not feel guilty about having "taken advantage of him." I always had a credit card with me and enough cash to pay my share (and for a cab ride back home).

The one time I wish I had stuck the guy with a check? A guy asked me out for dinner at an expensive sushi place and said he wanted to take me there and that I'd love it. I love sushi and figured it'd be worth the money. (And I knew going in that I'd be paying my own share 'cause I never like to stick a guy with a check that expensive on what might be a one-date only thing.) When the check came, he sat there and made no motion for his wallet--even though he saw me getting mine out. I was about to say how much we each owed... He actually put his hand over my hand and said to me, "Oh, you're so sweet. Thanks for treating." I just paid. I figured I'd get a lot of mileage telling that story to all my friends. And I did. But now, I kind of wish I had excused myself to go to the restroom and just never come back.

[Muduh]

When I was a teenager my boyfriend and I double dated with another couple all of the time. It was a joke between the two of us about how slow the other guy was to extract his wallet. Since my boyfriend made more money, and was the other guys boss, he usually just paid. Fast forward about forty something years. Other guy has been married to a member of my family for all these years. We see them seldomly. (is that a word?) A few years ago we had occasion to go out to dinner with them. I had filled my husband (not the boyfriend of early years) in on the fact that the guy might still have the same small pockets which hampered him getting his billfold out without much, much trouble and time. When that actually happened, my husband looked at me and both of us had a hard time keeping a straight face. My husband just told him he'd pay if HE would get the tip. I've felt bad about that since that day because I just know that he stiffed the waiter.

Sorry for this trip down memory lane, but this discussion just brought it to mind.

[Rattus]

This isn't a huge deal but I'm not sure how to dilpomatically deal with it. My brother in law makes good money and he's a really nice guy. BUT, he's super cheap. When he comes to visit, we are the ones who are always paying for him when we go out. I don't really mind 'cause he's family and a guest in our home...but he makes NO EFFORT to ever treat us. (And granted there's 2 of us and only 1 of him...but still...you'd think it'd be a nice gesture.) Now he wants us to mail him some heavy stuff ('cause it'd cost him a lot of money to buy it new), and of course we'll send it to him (at our cost--a bitchy remark on my part, but because I'm annoyed with him, there you go). The thing is, if he would've even OFFERED to pay for the shipping costs, I would've been happy and not taken his money. It's not spending money on him that bothers me so much, I guess, but the fact that he never even thinks to OFFER. And I know that the next time he's here, we'll be forking out money to take him out again. If this was my brother, I'd have no problem calling him a cheapskate and telling him to get his credit card out (of course, my brother isn't a cheapskate and errs on the side of giving people TOO much). But it doesn't bother my husband and I can't say anything to the guy ('cause I'm chicken). So that's my little "relationship" problem.

With respect to the shipping of items what I would do is this. Give him quotes from various courier companies, operating on the given assumption that he would be paying the shipping. That doesn't put you in the position of having to ask him for money and there really isn't any graceful way he can back out of paying.

I know you don't actually mind paying, but it's about time someone put the monetary ball in his court.

[Lois Lane]

With respect to the shipping of items what I would do is this. Give him quotes from various courier companies, operating on the given assumption that he would be paying the shipping. That doesn't put you in the position of having to ask him for money and there really isn't any graceful way he can back out of paying.

I know you don't actually mind paying, but it's about time someone put the monetary ball in his court.

You're not going to believe this...or maybe you will... But he wanted it shipped with a certain carrier (their location is closer to his house, in case he needs to pick it up). I checked into prices and told him it's actually more expensive to send it that way than the other couriers and gave him the prices...and he said..."Oh, in that case, send it however you like since you guys are paying for it."

!!!

I didn't know what to say so I just said, "OK." And honestly, he wasn't saying it in a mean or belligerent way. That's just how he thinks. He's cheap and he's clueless. My mom said I need to put a stop to this right away or he'll end up moving in with us one day (she's overly melodramatic, too).

I did tell him that since we were sending this, he should take US out to dinner the next time we see him. I won't be holding my breath.

And Muduh, your husband is a good sport!

[canuckinchile]

You need to talk to your husband since it is his brother, or just deal with it yourself. I dealt with this type of situation for a while, with cheap in laws. I finally strapped on a pair, and became fairly blunt. I actually have a better relationship now because I am not constantly simmering about stuff, and some people just need to be hit on the head. Also, I am fairly generous, and give lots of gifts, have lots of visitors (and don't worry a whole bunch if I am buying all the groceries etc., which usually happens), but asking for something of yours and making you pay to ship it is waaaaaaaaaaaay over the limit if you ask me, especially if he can afford it. Honestly, life is too short. IMO, you either accept that it is never going to change, and try to be zen about it, or just talk to the guy.

[Rattus]

You're not going to believe this...or maybe you will... But he wanted it shipped with a certain carrier (their location is closer to his house, in case he needs to pick it up). I checked into prices and told him it's actually more expensive to send it that way than the other couriers and gave him the prices...and he said..."Oh, in that case, send it however you like since you guys are paying for it."

!!!

I didn't know what to say so I just said, "OK." And honestly, he wasn't saying it in a mean or belligerent way. That's just how he thinks. He's cheap and he's clueless. My mom said I need to put a stop to this right away or he'll end up moving in with us one day (she's overly melodramatic, too).

I did tell him that since we were sending this, he should take US out to dinner the next time we see him. I won't be holding my breath.

And Muduh, your husband is a good sport!

All I can say is wow . That is seriously clueless. Your mom may be melodramatic, but I used to know one of these people and it did come down one day to my looking at him and then at Mr. Rattus and saying no, he can't move in. He cried a little, (the mooch, not Mr. Rattus) but I held firm. The relationship Mr. Rattus and I had had with mooch over the years had come really close to destroying our marriage.

[MRD]

AFter many such experiences with cheap people, when I go out with friends, the first thing I say to the waitress is: Put this on separate checks please.

Before I even order. Now if I've asked a friend out and intend to treat, then I don't do that. But if its a group of us and often it is, I get that out of the way right off the bat that it is separate checks and everyone will be paying for themselves, so order accordingly.

And I've never had anyone say a word to me. I don't know what they are thinking and don't really care, but at least this saves a big hassle afterwards trying to either figure out what everyone owes or having someone mooch.

As for the package, can you send it COD????

The article was interesting. I'm going to agree with the weight thing, because I've noticed women will do this to other women, I complmented how one co worker looked and she went on for about 10 minutes about how fat she was. I was just thinking she looked great.

I absolutely HATE this. Being overweight it INSULTS ME to hear a size 6 go on and on about how fat they are. I want to say: "You have no idea what fat really is and you insult all fat people by saying this".

What I actually have said to people like your co-worker is: "I just paid you a compliment, a simple thank you would have been enough, now I know better next time." and walked off.

I don't have any problem usually with saying stuff to people. I guess that first half of my life being taken advantage of, taught me to speak up or get walked on.

And when someone pays me a compliment. I say thank you. I don't try to explain anything away. I like compliments and I appreciate them enough not to sabotage them by blathering on.

[Lois Lane]

I think some thin women are fishing for compliments when they do that. I've always been on the thin side (although I'm finding out fast that age is the equalizer for all of us!) and just thank people if they compliment me. But what to do about the idiots that ask if I have an eating disorder 'cause I'm slender and eat a lot. (BTW, it's called genetics--everyone in my family is thin.) I know they're not being complimentary in any way. Whatever. I just ignore them!

I will try the COD with my BIL. YOU KNOW I WON'T 'CAUSE I'M A CHICKEN. I'm going to have to grow a set of balls and follow Canuck's advice and either tell him myself to crack open his wallet every now and again--or have the husband do it. I doubt the latter will happen so I'll have to.

[pickles]

This guy that I hung out with once (I spoke of him in another thread), constantly called me, text messaged me....basically scared me off. Well, last week (after I flat out told him I didnt want to hang out with him again cause he was a tad too overbearing for me) he told me hed rather pretend we never spoke again and acted like we never met. Ok, awesome. I went about my life, never giving him another thought. Yesterday, I get an email from him telling me hes sorry for the way he acted, but it was all my fault.
I know how to pick em!

[giz]

Holy guacamole Pickles! Consider yourself lucky you called a halt when you did! Sounds like a total pain in the you know where.

I am giving my date one more day. Well, til tonight. We've been casual friends for years, he starts asking me out in July. We have a great time when we're together, kisses are exchanged, then suddenly - he disappears. Calls last week to get together. Then calls to cancel (family crisis, no details yet, but he said it's not a huge worry). Calls Friday a.m. to apologise. Says he'll call that night or on the weekend. Does neither. I talk to his cell and say don't worry about standing me up, we'll talk soon. Tuesday morning (!) I call him to say hi. He sounds a little tense, says he'll call me last night. Does not call me. Enough already! Either he tells me what is going on or I assume He's Just Not That Into Me. I have put an email in draft, saying it was fun, hope you enjoyed it, but I don't want to be at the bottom of someone's list of priorities again. Hope we're still friends. And if he does contact me by tonight I am pressing send!

This whole thing has been good in terms of giving me good memories to replace the bad, but I think if it's not working I am not ready to put work into a relationship at the moment. Need Giz time. I hate being single, but I think it's probably a lot saner place right minutes.