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Thread: Grammar

  1. #311
    FORT Fogey norealityhere's Avatar
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    I very much dislike all the changes that are being incorporated into the popular lexicon. I have watched 2 scripted TV shows the past week, both of which said "my bad." Sorry, but it just makes no sense to me to bast*rdi*e the English language in such a disrespectful and infantile way.
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  2. #312
    FORT Fogey justCoz's Avatar
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ClosetNerd;3385017;
    One space after a period is OK now!? A side effect of our text crazy society I'm sure.
    I think this started with computers before texting was even too popular. It does save on memory by saving that many characters in every single thing you type. It would make a minimal difference if you were on dial-up but any time saver on that is a good thing!

    But it's really hard to remember sometimes since the way I learned is to type 2 spaces.

  3. #313
    FORT Fogey norealityhere's Avatar
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by justCoz;3385088;
    I think this started with computers before texting was even too popular. It does save on memory by saving that many characters in every single thing you type. Saying that, it's really hard to remember sometimes since the way I learned is to type 2 spaces.
    Yes, it started long before texting - I was told to do this in the mid 90's. And, I still find it hard to break the 2 space rule.
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  4. #314
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    It was definitely in the 90s. I was in college then, and remember being told that on a computer, it was one space, on a typewriter it was two. It has to do with typesetting. Back when letters were laid out for printing, they were all the same width. On a typewriter, the same is true. But a computer can adjust type for letters of varying width. So the eye has an easier time differentiating the spaces on computer generated text than it does type written text. That's why the rule changed. It annyoed me so much when I first learned it that I can actually remember typing letters out with my roommates typewriter and measuring them to see that yes, in fact each letter on a type writer IS the same width. Freshman year with no fake ID got boring at times.

  5. #315
    Resident curmudgeon Newfherder's Avatar
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    It has to do with typesetting. Back when letters were laid out for printing, they were all the same width
    Not true. I spent many happy hours in 9th Grade shop class setting type and printing bogus business cards, and I can state with some authority that letter widths in moveable type (at least the half-dozen fonts that I messed with) were variable width.
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  6. #316
    Team DAN schmoo2's Avatar
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    Also, a lot of software does not like 2 spaces in a row, and will strip it back to just one. At least in certain data fields.
    I was doing a newsletter for a group, and 2 of the people did no spacing after a (.). It drove me and WORD nuts.

  7. #317
    FORT Fogey Missyboxers's Avatar
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by justCoz;3385088;
    I think this started with computers before texting was even too popular. It does save on memory by saving that many characters in every single thing you type. It would make a minimal difference if you were on dial-up but any time saver on that is a good thing!

    But it's really hard to remember sometimes since the way I learned is to type 2 spaces.
    It must have, since I never learned to type with two spaces after a period, and I grew up in the '90s

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;3384859;
    I normally avoid this thread as grammatical errors can tend to make me shiver as if I were hearing fingernails on a chalkboard. But you've named some of my worst offenders -- apostrophes in plural words (!!!!), apostrophes in the incorrect spots when showing possession (I have to drive by this house with a sign indicating "The Parker's" all of the time. One of these days I'm going to make a new one that says "The Parkers' " and replace it!), "him and I" at the beginning of a sentence, "I seen this movie....", etc.
    Me too. You must have (or would have) loved the recent Bachelor's speech patterns.

    Other pet peeves of mine: you're/your, there/their/they're, would/could/should must "of" instead of "have" and any instance of "u" instead of "you," even in a text and especially in an email or other typed message.

  8. #318
    Premium Member Yeti Long Shot: Porpoheus Champion
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    I love all of my fellow grammar hounds! I don't know why it's such a big deal with me - but I will not put up with poor grammar - and my kids are victims of my pet peeve!

    When I read a statement that confuses "then" with "than", I wonder if this person actually knows how to read.
    I'm not sure I could take a person seriously who uses the word "conversate".

    When I was in an advanced lliterature class in college, the professor asked us to grade other students' compositions, I was given one written by a student majoring in childhood education. The paper was so poorly written, I actually wrote a comment on the paper stating if this person were teaching my kids, I'd have my kids taken from that class.

    I sure don't claim to have perfect grammar, but hopefully others are able to understand me!

    All of this brings me to the question of quotation marks. I have been a typesetter, proofreader and a legal secretary for 20-plus years, and was taught all punctuation belongs inside quotation marks. This does not seem logical to me. If the punctuation belongs at the end of a sentence, but a word in quotes is the last word of the sentence, should that word be in quotes?

    ps. please forgive any grammar/spelling mistakes in the above comment.

  9. #319
    FORT Fogey Ellen's Avatar
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    All of this brings me to the question of quotation marks. I have been a typesetter, proofreader and a legal secretary for 20-plus years, and was taught all punctuation belongs inside quotation marks. This does not seem logical to me. If the punctuation belongs at the end of a sentence, but a word in quotes is the last word of the sentence, should that word be in quotes?
    Not all punctuation. According to the widely accepted style manuals (CMOS, APA, MLA), in standard written U.S. American English, periods and commas, regardless of whether or not they are part of the quoted material, precede closing quotation marks; colons, semicolons, question marks, and exclamation points follow closing quotation marks unless a question mark or an exclamation point belongs within the quoted matter.

    The Oxford Guide to Style (used by Great Britain and other English-speaking countries), however, states that only those punctuation points that appear in the original quoted material should be included within the quotation marks; all others follow the closing quotation marks.

    Hope this helps!
    Last edited by Ellen; 03-18-2009 at 12:56 AM.
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  10. #320
    Premium Member Yeti Long Shot: Porpoheus Champion
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    Re: The Grammar discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen;3386021;
    Not all punctuation. According to the widely accepted style manuals (CMOS, APA, MLA), in standard written U.S. American English, periods and commas, regardless of whether or not they are part of the quoted material, precede closing quotation marks; colons, semicolons, question marks, and exclamation points follow closing quotation marks unless a question mark or an exclamation point belongs within the quoted matter.

    The Oxford Guide to Style (used by Great Britain and other English-speaking countries), however, states that only those punctuation points that appear in the original quoted material should be included within the quotation marks; all others follow the closing quotation marks.

    Hope this helps!

    I usually refer to the Chicago Manual. I mean, I understand the traditions in American English, it just seems so illogical. Maybe I'll just intersperse some of the Oxford Guide rules. Bosses be damned! (Not that anyone I work with would notice.)

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