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Thread: 9/11 - Never Forget!

  1. #21
    FORT Fogey sonormal's Avatar
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    You know what? I don't compare tragedies. It's sick to do so. Grief cannot be measure. It's stupid to try and argue about who has suffered more. I'm not talking about the horrors of the rest of the world today, I am more than well aware that they exist.

    But today is 9/11. This, for me at least, is more personal-- not worse, not more important-- than any other world events. I'm sorry if I sound a little bitchy. I'm no expert, but I am familiar with international relations and politics (if you'd like to know to what extent, I'd be happy to share-- or else see my webpage bio, www.zyworld.com/grantaireo2/bio.htm)

    I'm still really touchy about 9/11-- and I kind of come off sounding like Bill O'Reilly. I do, however, actually like Bill O'Reilly (please don't hate me, I'm not a hater...I actually like Rush Limbauh, Michael Moore, Tammy Bruce, Al Franken, Chris Matthews, James Carville, too-- all for the great job they do at keeping the dialogue going...)

  2. #22
    FORT Fogey eldee's Avatar
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    I chose to be direct. I don't need to be politically correct or mourn for everyone in history, the same way I don't need to mourn for a person who died in a car accident in IA, even though it is sad and someone's lost. "Family" usually touches me the most. I don't compare one tragedy with another. It's enough that bad things happen. I know that I'm not the best person in the world, but I also don't aspire to become a martyr for everyone, no one can. Other nations have experienced lose in the past and present. Re: the US, many disagree with out policies, etc, but I believe few turn away our valuable aid.

    When 9/11/01 was here, my company received messages and pictures, ie: from Norway showing their grief and fellowship with us. That was very appreciated and I'm glad they did not give a list of their or other tragedies. It was like a gift. If I were to give a gift, it will be done willingly and without any thoughts of receiving a gift in return. There would be no contemplation of how others might be the same or more worthy of such a gift.

    Frankly, to me, to post such a passive/aggressive message today is both rude and thoughtless of the FORT members and others, American or not. Regardless of any other flowery words surrounding it, it just plain stinks.

  3. #23
    FORT Fanatic VeeJay's Avatar
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    Beautiful poem hazyshadeof.
    A man can convince anyone he's somebody else, but never himself. - Verbal Kint from the movie The Usual Suspects

  4. #24
    FORT Fogey nausicaa's Avatar
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    I respect your opinions, eldee. However, I don't believe my post was in bad taste - however, I admit I am biased. Therefore, if John/other mods would like to delete it, they would be welcome to do so.

    My original intention was, again, NOT to compare tragedies, but to bring a different perspective to it. I see it not as the ONE incident symbolic of human suffering or the fight for freedom, but one in a long line of such incidents. I tried to see it through a wide-angle lens.

    My reason for mentioning the controversial U.S. policies backing some of the tragedies is to highlight the complex nature of 9/11. Again, if the mods feel that it's not appropriate, feel free to delete it. It's your board, after all.

    I'm sorry if I can't offer just simple condolences, but my condolence at the end was sincere. If it was falsely "flowery" and grated on your nerves, eldee, blame my bad writing style, not the sentiment.

  5. #25
    mantenna for AI3! blindart's Avatar
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    The high school where I work went to New York last year. We sang at Saint Peter's cathedral at a private mass for the families of the victims, and sang at Ground Zero, as police and firemen were filing out of the pit at the first year memorial. I put some of the photos and student essays together for our website. It made me feel very proud to be at a school where the guys could write about crying, and not be embarrassed, and the "cool" kids could talk about becoming close with students they wouldn't normally hang around with.

    http://www.artsacademy-woods.org/nyc/nycflash.html

  6. #26
    FORT Fogey sonormal's Avatar
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    actually, nausica-- i rather liked your first post. my tone was misinterpreted, as well. but i also want to say that i generally am a huuuge fan of everything you write (though am not a fan of Chomsky, and I'm pretty sure you're not an O'Reilly fan...*good natured *), and I didn't take offense at your original post. Nor did I want to sound as if I was "flaunting" my credentials (as I am a recent graduate and pretty much have none). I'm a bit defensive, too, of my sentiments...because I'm not really sure about anything anymore.

  7. #27
    FORT Fogey sonormal's Avatar
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    I, did, too get the gist of it-- and the gist was intelligent and heartfelt, nausica. It's just...I dunno...nevermind.
    Like you, I'm frustrated, too.

    And I'm grieving not for the world of suffering-- which is too big-- but my little corner of it. And I don't want to constantly defend why I think it's ok to do that. That's all. I don't know.

  8. #28
    FORT Fogey nausicaa's Avatar
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    To be fair, Grantaire - I sounded a little edgy, too, in my response to you. Sorry about that. "Flaunting your credentials" was harsh, I admit. I remember looking at your website - Constitutional Democracy is damn cool.

    I've always found your posts to be witty and interesting...maybe this subject has brought out the worst in me, I don't know. Again, if I've truly offended anyone (and it looks like I may have), please feel free to alert the mods, and they'll take corrective action, if they want to.

    I still stand by what I wrote in my original post, though. But I'm not sniffing self-righteously at anyone who wishes to grieve for their own corner of the world...I hope I didn't convey *that*. All I wanted to do was to illustrate that there are other tragedies out there as well...yet, for the most part, the public is silent when it comes to them. Perhaps it wasn't the best idea to post that in this thread - but 9/11 sort of brought out these conflicting emotions in me.

    I'm Canadian. We don't have catastrophes on the scale of 9/11 in our backyard, so I can't grieve personally for my country. Therefore, I choose to grieve for every country out there that has suffered from these calamities. It's not to be wishy-washy or politically-correct; actually, the PC thing to do in this case would have been to go along with everyone else, and expressed easily-accepted sentiments.

    Oh, and to Eldee - about your Norwegian friend who offered you condolences without strings attached...I don't know what to say. One of my closest friends, Marijana, is from Yugoslavia. She was in Kosovo. The way she described the aftermath of the conflict - the bombed buildings that had stood for centuries, the displaced, hapless civilians, the carnage and the chaos...it brought tears to my eyes. No country/political group has the right to inflict that on another country, and this also applies to the al-Queda terrorists and the United States.
    Last edited by nausicaa; 09-11-2003 at 06:40 PM.

  9. #29
    FORT Fogey sonormal's Avatar
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    i dunno...two years ago today...i just wanted to be with everyone in one big room...hugging. that's all.

  10. #30
    That's all folks! Unklescott's Avatar
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    When I started this thread, I didn't mean to stir a political debate. I just buried my best friend of 40 years last week. He passed away unexpectedly on my sons birthday. This has been a bad week for me. All I wanted to do was to make people take time today to think about the great loss of human life that occured 2 years ago. Life is way too short and we should all take time to smell the roses. As Rodney King said, "Can't we all just get along?"

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