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Thread: Whole Foods

  1. #11
    FORT Fogey bachelorwatcher's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    Quote Originally Posted by Leftcoaster View Post
    Surprises me that Whole Foods would offer rabbit, then I'm surprised I was surprised.
    Whole Foods is too upscale for my neck of the woods, so I'm mostly unfamiliar with it.
    But I do get that they're willing to serve, If there customers want to knosh on bunnies, why shouldn't they provide that fare, as unseemly as that seems.

    When I was a kid you could buy horsemeat at the market.
    I didn't know that Whole Foods sold rabbit until I saw the protest. Also, I buy sirloin tip. It's very low in fat and costs $6.99 a pound. It's the lowest in price of all the red meat.

  2. #12
    Red Sox Nation Brooks's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    Animal fat isn't the problem. It's the industrial vegetable oils, like corn and soybean, that are making our society so chronically sick - the fats we were told to eat instead of animal fats.
    Punkin and beerbelly like this.

  3. #13
    FORT Fogey bachelorwatcher's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks View Post
    Animal fat isn't the problem. It's the industrial vegetable oils, like corn and soybean, that are making our society so chronically sick - the fats we were told to eat instead of animal fats.
    There are sources of good fats/oils... avocados, salmon, sesame seed oil...

  4. #14
    Red Sox Nation Brooks's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    Quote Originally Posted by bachelorwatcher View Post
    There are sources of good fats/oils... avocados, salmon, sesame seed oil...
    All dietary fats are a combination of saturated, monosaturated, and polyunsaturated, whether from a plant source or animal source. The essential fatty acids, Omega 3 and 6, are in the polyunsaturated group which as a group is very unstable. When exposed to high heat during cooking they can morph into chemicals our bodies were never previously subjected to (and which have never been tested and probably can't easily be tested individually, but shades of TransFats they're unlikely to be harmless). Instability is also a reason polyunsaturated oils go rancid sooner. The mono and saturated fats are much more stable so usually better for cooking and they store longer.

    When saturated fats were mistakenly demonized we were told to use polyunsaturated oils instead, specifically vegetable oils. Unfortunately almost all of them are much higher in Omega 6 than Omega 3 fatty acids. Omega 6 oils are metabolically part of the chain of biochemicals in the body responsible for natural inflammatory responses. Omega 3 oils are metabolically part of the anti-inflammatory biochemical group. The American diet is now dangerously high in Omega 6 and it is one of the important reasons we have so much chronic, inflammatory disease.

    O6 and O3 are both needed but in roughly equal amounts. If too out of balance they they will not both function properly. Because polyunsaturateds are unstable (including in the body) it's far better to try to achieve a healthly balance by eliminating what O6 you can from your diet rather than increasing O3.

    Sesame oil falls in the category of a vegetable oil with too much Omega 6. Even avocadoes and olives have roughly a 13:1 ratio of O6:O3 which is too high but their fat content is far more monosaturated than poly so less total O6. I'm an avocado and olive fan which I use as whole ingredients and only very rarely as just an oil. My preference is to cook with saturated fats (coconut oil or butter). Where possible I strictly avoid the Omega 6 sources like margarine, salad dressing (olive oil dressing isn't so bad), mayonnaise (the "olive oil" mayonnaises are still mostly soybean oil), tartar sauce, and I carefully check labels. Flax seed and chia seed are unusual in that they are plant sources very high in O3 v. O6 so I include them in my cereals and smoothies. And I try to eat good O3 fish sources like salmon and sardines.

    Denise Minger's book Death By Food Pyramid has good information on the relative fat compositions of different dietary oils and fats. One very interesting table about how many ounces of salmon you would need to eat to balance out the amount of O6 in 2 tablespoons of a variety of vegetable oils. (For sesame oil that would mean 17 ounces of salmon, an unreasonable amount.) The USDA has a nutrient database you could use to check your own food ingredients - it's how I figured where to make adjustments in my diet. Nina Teicholz' book The Big Fat Surprise goes further into the explanation of why it's dangerous to use polyunsaturated oils for cooking.

  5. #15
    FORT Fogey bachelorwatcher's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks View Post
    All dietary fats are a combination of saturated, monosaturated, and polyunsaturated, whether from a plant source or animal source. The essential fatty acids, Omega 3 and 6, are in the polyunsaturated group which as a group is very unstable. When exposed to high heat during cooking they can morph into chemicals our bodies were never previously subjected to (and which have never been tested and probably can't easily be tested individually, but shades of TransFats they're unlikely to be harmless). Instability is also a reason polyunsaturated oils go rancid sooner. The mono and saturated fats are much more stable so usually better for cooking and they store longer.

    When saturated fats were mistakenly demonized we were told to use polyunsaturated oils instead, specifically vegetable oils. Unfortunately almost all of them are much higher in Omega 6 than Omega 3 fatty acids. Omega 6 oils are metabolically part of the chain of biochemicals in the body responsible for natural inflammatory responses. Omega 3 oils are metabolically part of the anti-inflammatory biochemical group. The American diet is now dangerously high in Omega 6 and it is one of the important reasons we have so much chronic, inflammatory disease.

    O6 and O3 are both needed but in roughly equal amounts. If too out of balance they they will not both function properly. Because polyunsaturateds are unstable (including in the body) it's far better to try to achieve a healthly balance by eliminating what O6 you can from your diet rather than increasing O3.

    Sesame oil falls in the category of a vegetable oil with too much Omega 6. Even avocadoes and olives have roughly a 13:1 ratio of O6:O3 which is too high but their fat content is far more monosaturated than poly so less total O6. I'm an avocado and olive fan which I use as whole ingredients and only very rarely as just an oil. My preference is to cook with saturated fats (coconut oil or butter). Where possible I strictly avoid the Omega 6 sources like margarine, salad dressing (olive oil dressing isn't so bad), mayonnaise (the "olive oil" mayonnaises are still mostly soybean oil), tartar sauce, and I carefully check labels. Flax seed and chia seed are unusual in that they are plant sources very high in O3 v. O6 so I include them in my cereals and smoothies. And I try to eat good O3 fish sources like salmon and sardines.

    Denise Minger's book Death By Food Pyramid has good information on the relative fat compositions of different dietary oils and fats. One very interesting table about how many ounces of salmon you would need to eat to balance out the amount of O6 in 2 tablespoons of a variety of vegetable oils. (For sesame oil that would mean 17 ounces of salmon, an unreasonable amount.) The USDA has a nutrient database you could use to check your own food ingredients - it's how I figured where to make adjustments in my diet. Nina Teicholz' book The Big Fat Surprise goes further into the explanation of why it's dangerous to use polyunsaturated oils for cooking.
    I don't "cook with" fat or oil. The only fat/oil that I consume is salmon, and one tablespoon of sesame oil every day. I also rinse with one tablespoon of sesame seed oil every day, (for twenty minutes). Does that count as "consuming" oil? Thank you for the information.
    Last edited by bachelorwatcher; 10-17-2014 at 04:42 PM.

  6. #16
    Red Sox Nation Brooks's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    Quote Originally Posted by bachelorwatcher View Post
    I don't "cook with" fat or oil. The only fat/oil that I consume is salmon, and one tablespoon of sesame oil every day. I also rinse with one tablespoon of sesame seed oil every day, (for twenty minutes). Does that count as "consuming" oil? Thank you for the information.
    I'm not sure about the rinsing - if you're aren't consuming it then it shouldn't count. Denise Minger's answer on the daily tablespoon of sesame oil is that you would need to eat the equivalent of 8 1/2 oz of salmon to make up for it. According to the USDA database, the ratio of Omega 6 to 3 is about 137 to 1. (On the other hand, whole dried sesame seeds or sesame seed "butter" is closer to 58 to 1 so it can matter what form you consume it.) A point Minger makes is that one of the things a disparate number of traditional but seemingly unrelated diets (like Paleo) have in common is they do not include "industrial" oils.

    Seeds and nuts are generally relatively high in Omega 6. They're often high in many nutrients so may be worth considering. Almond butter and walnuts are important to me but I gave up pumpkin and sunflower seeds in my smoothies. Almond butter has a very high ratio of Omega 6 (because there is almost no O3 in it) but I can balance it against what else I typically eat. I didn't want to make any assumptions so I calculated what I could to have a better understanding of my diet.

  7. #17
    FORT Fogey bachelorwatcher's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    Quote Originally Posted by Brooks View Post
    I'm not sure about the rinsing - if you're aren't consuming it then it shouldn't count. Denise Minger's answer on the daily tablespoon of sesame oil is that you would need to eat the equivalent of 8 1/2 oz of salmon to make up for it. According to the USDA database, the ratio of Omega 6 to 3 is about 137 to 1. (On the other hand, whole dried sesame seeds or sesame seed "butter" is closer to 58 to 1 so it can matter what form you consume it.) A point Minger makes is that one of the things a disparate number of traditional but seemingly unrelated diets (like Paleo) have in common is they do not include "industrial" oils.

    Seeds and nuts are generally relatively high in Omega 6. They're often high in many nutrients so may be worth considering. Almond butter and walnuts are important to me but I gave up pumpkin and sunflower seeds in my smoothies. Almond butter has a very high ratio of Omega 6 (because there is almost no O3 in it) but I can balance it against what else I typically eat. I didn't want to make any assumptions so I calculated what I could to have a better understanding of my diet.
    I eat about 6 ounces of salmon every other day. After reading your post, I cut back to one tablespoon of sesame seed oil every other day, instead of every day. I guess that almost evens out the Omega 6 and Omega 3.
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  8. #18
    FORT Fogey Debb70's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    This is all very confusing to me. I was told to eat a little bit of butter if you have to, but other than that use olive oil. I was told that avacados are good in moderation, as are certain nuts. Is anything wrong with this?

    Have you ever tried to avoid buying food that contains soy bean or soy bean oil? Good luck, but it's very difficult to do. I discovered that soy bean oil causing my tummy issues. It's in most salad dressings and that's why I can't eat bottled salad dressing or jarred mayo. In fact it's in almost all products in a grocery store. Can you purchase foods that don't have it some where?
    Last edited by Debb70; 10-24-2014 at 03:54 PM.

  9. #19
    Red Sox Nation Brooks's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    Quote Originally Posted by Debb70 View Post
    This is all very confusing to me. I was told to eat a little bit of butter if you have to, but other than that use olive oil. I was told that avacados are good in moderation, as are certain nuts. Is anything wrong with this?
    Butter is not the villain. Too much Omega 6 (compared to the amount of Omega 3) is. Olive oil is the best vegetable oil I'm aware of but you should use it cold. I cook with butter or coconut oil. I'm a big fan of whole avocadoes - lots of nutrition and the oils are primarily monosaturated but still too much Omega 6 to go crazy with them. Most nuts will have too much Omega 6. I think macadamia nuts are one of the exceptions. The way to work out whether you're reasonably in balance is to do the calculations. I use the USDA database for that.

    Have you ever tried to avoid buying food that contains soy bean or soy bean oil? Good luck, but it's very difficult to do.
    It's not difficult, provided you're on board with the notion of staying away from processed foods. At least minimize it as much as you can. One of the dangers of processed foods is you can't do the calculations because you can't really know how much soybean oil is in the product.

    I discovered that soy bean oil causing my tummy issues. It's in most salad dressings and that's why I can't eat bottled salad dressing or jarred mayo. In fact it's in almost all products in a grocery store. Can you purchase foods that don't have it some where?
    I have never seen a commercial mayo that did not include soybean oil. I have seen recipes for homemade mayo based on coconut oil. The issue I've seen with all homemade mayo is it doesn't last very long, not worth it to me. The ubiquitousness of soybean and similar oils in grocery store products is an example of why we're so unhealthy.
    Debb70 likes this.

  10. #20
    Kitten time! Gutmutter's Avatar
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    Re: Whole Foods

    I agree that the best approach is to buy your foods whole... shop mostly in the produce section. Make a list and stick with it. I like balsamic vinegar as a salad dressing. Crushed fresh garlic has amazing properties. I've heard of people using mashed avocado in place of mayo.
    Debb70 likes this.
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