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Thread: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

  1. #221
    FORT Fogey nanarama's Avatar
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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    I agree about liking some contestants more than you thought. That's happened to me multiple times.

    It just came to me, that we have die-hard fans of various pros. (I know that makes some people get up in arms and it is said we vote for the "Star" and not the pro, but lets face it, for some of us the pros are more well known that the "Stars!)

    So if you love (Or dislike a pro) does that make you want to give their "Star" and better chance? being honest? (And no, I'm not referring to any particular pro at this time. I just mean generally.)

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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    Quote Originally Posted by nanarama View Post
    I agree about liking some contestants more than you thought. That's happened to me multiple times.

    It just came to me, that we have die-hard fans of various pros. (I know that makes some people get up in arms and it is said we vote for the "Star" and not the pro, but lets face it, for some of us the pros are more well known that the "Stars!)

    So if you love (Or dislike a pro) does that make you want to give their "Star" and better chance? being honest? (And no, I'm not referring to any particular pro at this time. I just mean generally.)
    We had a thread on here didn't we? and some people voted for the star, and some for the pro. I love Derek and I have grown to like Amber. I respect her for doing this show, because her knees hurt, due to her weight.Will she win, no, I don't think she will.

    I didn't know Corbin/Brant/Bill , but imho it's Corbin's to lose. Sorry this is EB's thread.
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  3. #223
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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    Elizabeth Berkley on why she stopped dancing after Showgirls
    Elizabeth Berkley on Why She Stopped Dancing After ‘Showgirls’ | Variety

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    FORT Fogey Jaceegirl's Avatar
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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    PA Snow Bunny said:
    IDK the more someone promotes a couple to the point of excess I tend to vote for anybody but that couple.
    PA Snow Bunny that statement is how I feel in a nutshell. I was not familiar with Elizabeth at all, so I didn't start the season with a preconceived notion about her. I learned about "SBTB" and "Showgirls" from what I read on here. I just totally saw nothing between Val and her. Now the show has gone out of it's way to make sure we see this connection, but it is backfiring on me because I feel they are forcing it.

    Fanny said:
    I am with you on Snookie, she is totally different- and when she dances, she draws me in. - something EB has yet to do and likely wont do on this show. I will say this, I think Elizabeth is enjoying dancing, so no matter what I feel or don't feel, her enjoying herself is what it's all about. The judges/the show -need to stop pushing her in our faces, I swear that way she would be more enjoyable then she is now
    Fanny I totally agree with your post - especially with the bolded because that is what is backfiring on me. I actually find her less appealing because the judges/show are pushing us on her. IMO she has been over scored many weeks. Just using last week's jive as an example she made some mistakes, but it was overlooked.

    Fanny said:
    can she dance ( she is a ringer)
    Another thing you mentioned in an earlier post that I totally agree with. It was even mentioned on the show that 50% of the dancers starting out had dancing experience and the other 50% did not. I personally don't mind if a star has dancing experience or not. I know some are bothered by it if they do, but not me. I am of the mindset that a lot of the times the dancing experience that they had was not ballroom so in a way it is new to all of them. It also could be a problem because they may be so trained in one style that it is hard to correct. This is JMO, but I believe that some people are born with natural musicality and that is what is very important. If you don't have musicality then it is going to be much harder for a dancer. I did dance and remember when first taking lessons we had a guy in our classes that totally could not hear the beat. Yes, he knew all the steps, but when he danced it just never was quite right because he couldn't hear the beat of the music. They worked with him and he became an okay dancer, but nothing like the dancers who could hear the beat and feel the music.

    I have heard of Snookie, but have never watched her show. She does draw me in as well and the greatest thing is she is not being pushed in our faces.

    nanarama said:
    So if you love (Or dislike a pro) does that make you want to give their "Star" and better chance? being honest? (And no, I'm not referring to any particular pro at this time. I just mean generally.)
    Before joining this site I sat at home watching and only discussed the show with a certain group of friends who watched. All of us picked out a star that became our favorite and some times we knew them and other times we didn't. I can honestly say none of us looked at any of the pros as stars. When I came here I was shocked to see that pros were every bit as important as the star and in some cases more important. I remember even posting about my surprise. When I still talk with my friends it is all about the star. I even told them how I had joined a site where the pros are considered stars themselves. So for me I still have that mindset. I do find certain pros are better at certain things like choreography or teaching than others imo. Some dances that different pros have choreographed just take my breath away and others not so much. I still think that I chose who I root for by the star, but yet other pros have created dances for their star that have either taken my breath away or that I just absolutely love for so many reasons. One example I can give is from last season and that would be Sharna and what she was able to do with Andy. Andy was not the best dancer and didn't have the musicality that some dancers had, and yet I thought she created dances for him that I just loved and were memorable.
    Last edited by Jaceegirl; 10-22-2013 at 07:18 PM.
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  5. #225
    FORT Fogey mesachick's Avatar
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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    I agree with everyone that the chemistry between Val and Elizabeth appears as if it's being forced upon us. I figured out part of the reason she isn't resonating with me... she has a victim mentality. I couldn't believe it that she was crying over Showgirls! That was 18 years ago for goodness sake! She chose to play a stripper/show girl in a movie that was way over hyped from the beginning (gotta love the picture of her with the pole that they showed - which is why I mentioned pole dancing earlier in this thread lol). She chose a bad role. The key here in all of this is that she CHOSE to do that. Heck Showgirls is now a cult classic that a lot of people enjoy watching. We are supposed to feel badly for her? She's crying over a role she chose 18 years ago? Give me a break! Valerie Harper is dying from cancer and we never saw her shed a tear. Jack Osborne has a debilitating disease that will cripple him while he is still young, he won't see his child grow up. And yet, he hasn't shed a tear either. Between that and her constant look of surprise due to over botoxing, she just isn't connecting to me whatsoever.

    I don't think it would matter who she was partnered with either, as I love Val. He and Z were my favorite couple last season.

    I am happy for her having a good time on the show, but dang is she being melodramatic over one role.
    Last edited by mesachick; 10-22-2013 at 07:41 PM.
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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    Quote Originally Posted by mesachick View Post
    I agree with everyone that the chemistry between Val and Elizabeth appears as if it's being forced upon us. I figured out part of the reason she isn't resonating with me... she has a victim mentality. I couldn't believe it that she was crying over Showgirls! That was 18 years ago for goodness sake! She chose to play a stripper/show girl in a movie that was way over hyped from the beginning (gotta love the picture of her with the pole that they showed - which is why I mentioned pole dancing earlier in this thread lol). She chose a bad role. The key here in all of this is that she CHOSE to do that. Heck Showgirls is now a cult classic that a lot of people enjoy watching. We are supposed to feel badly for her? She's crying over a role she chose 18 years ago? Give me a break! Valerie Harper is dying from cancer and we never saw her shed a tear. Jack Osborne has a debilitating disease that will cripple him while he is still young, he won't see his child grow up. And yet, he hasn't shed a tear either. Between that and her constant look of surprise due to over botoxing, she just isn't connecting to me whatsoever.

    I don't think it would matter who she was partnered with either, as I love Val. He and Z were my favorite couple last season.

    I am happy for her having a good time on the show, but dang is she being melodramatic over one role.

    I'm not everyone. There are those who would disagree with this completely. Elizabeth going in the first half of the show for 5 out of 6 nights so far is not pushing her. People have made comments, this team has made adjustments. People wanted a SBTB routine, this team responded. People asked for a Showgirls routine, they've responded with a nod to the show. One role she took as a 21 year old changed her life, and of course it was a choice. What ensued wasn't her choice, she alone shouldering the blame for marketing decisions of this film and the box office disaster. Nor was it her choice to be considered toxic when others in the same film have gone on to fruitful careers, in acting and in dance, not small roles that limit you creatively and financially. Giving up dance was a sacrifice. A dancer knows this. Her legions of celebrity friends who are supporting her knows what's up. I saw the tears as being grateful for the opportunity to have the life sentence lifted. It's sort of cool that #dwts can help.
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  7. #227
    FORT Fogey ilja's Avatar
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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    I can see why she is melodramatic over one role. It was the role of a lifetime except with the opposite affect of what most stars wish for. It totally blew her career out of the water and into the ditch. While someone else might have been able to overcome such an event, apparently, Elizabeth could not.

    Personally, I think it may in large part be the botox but I also remember her a little from Saved By the Bell and never found her very likable back then either. I just think she doesn't have a very bubbly personality but is sensitive to the core which drives her to put up such a thick wall which in turn keeps folks out and it hurts her to where it's all a big circle.

    I can't help but feel for her even if I don't like her personality or lack thereof.
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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    Of all the people on the show this season, for me Elizabeth has the most interesting, engaging personality and I would love to hang out with her.

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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    EC, you obviously feel very passionately about those you choose to support, last year Z and this year Elizabeth, both paired with Val. That's fine and I am sure there are many more who feel just as passionate about their favs. I am not one who feels that passionate about reality show contestants. It is strictly entertainment and I just can't see allowing myself to become so vested in any contestant that comments begin to feel personal. It steals my joy and my enjoyment AND it gives others way more power in my life than I choose to allow. All that being said, I can understand why mesachick's "everyone" seemed to indicate that Elizabeth had no supporters and that literally everyone felt the same. However, I don't think that was what she intended. That at least isn't how I read it. Having read the latest posts and then mesa's I gathered she simply meant that she was in agreement with all the previous posters (of which I may have been one... can't really remember) who do feel those things in regard to Elizabeth's dancing. Mesachick, not trying to speak out of turn here, just wanted to post a different point of view.

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    FORT Fogey mesachick's Avatar
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    Re: Elizabeth Berkley Lauren & Val Chmerkovskiy - Season 17

    Quote Originally Posted by EnglishCadbury View Post
    I'm not everyone. There are those who would disagree with this completely. Elizabeth going in the first half of the show for 5 out of 6 nights so far is not pushing her. People have made comments, this team has made adjustments. People wanted a SBTB routine, this team responded. People asked for a Showgirls routine, they've responded with a nod to the show. One role she took as a 21 year old changed her life, and of course it was a choice. What ensued wasn't her choice, she alone shouldering the blame for marketing decisions of this film and the box office disaster. Nor was it her choice to be considered toxic when others in the same film have gone on to fruitful careers, in acting and in dance, not small roles that limit you creatively and financially. Giving up dance was a sacrifice. A dancer knows this. Her legions of celebrity friends who are supporting her knows what's up. I saw the tears as being grateful for the opportunity to have the life sentence lifted. It's sort of cool that #dwts can help.
    She did not shoulder the blame alone. The writer, Joe Eszterhas, took the brunt of the blame. The movie's director, Paul Verhoeven, also took a lot of the heat.Part of the reason Elizabeth was panned so badly, was simply because, her acting was poor.

    Elizabeth chose to not dance. No one forced her to not dance for the next 18 years. Personally I find that weak. I have horses, and am well acquainted with the saying, both figuratively and literally lol - when you fall off a horse, you need to get right back up on it. She didn't do that - she was weak. Giving up dance was not a sacrifice, it was a choice she made out of fear. A true dancer would not have buckled to fear from one role like that. Life sentence - well maybe, but it's one she gave to herself. I don't know what it means *her legions of celebrity friends* - celebrities aren't any better than folks that aren't, and they certainly don't have it any worse off than the rest of us *regular* folk.

    She chose a risky role. Trying to shed her good girl image from SBTB and chose a lead in a movie that was about stripping, she did full frontal nudity, in a movie that many people (at that time) felt bordered on pornography. From what I've read, most people didn't think she had much of a career regardless of whether Showgirls bombed or not, because she simply doesn't have the acting chops to make the transition from TV screen to the Big Screen. She thought it was going to make her a big named star and it back fired. So what? A lot of actual big time movie stars make crap movies, but they get back up, and try again, not slink away into a corner for 18 years and refuse to dance/act/sing. This is why she doesn't connect with me. She is so playing this sympathy card about the dancing thing. She has since DWTS has started. I guess it works on some people, and not on others.

    No one else in the cast went on to fruitful careers either - certainly not in movies. Kyle McLachlan (who also had another huge dud with Dune), is really the only cast member who has made a decent career, and even that has been very hit and miss for him. Of course he worked hard at it, and didn't crawl away into a corner.

    I still find her reaction to all of this, and her dependency upon it to try to draw sympathy votes, sad. She is clearly not made to be able to survive what it takes to thrive in the world of celebrity. I do wish her well though.

    ETA: Thanks NC! Yes I was indeed referring to everyone else who shared my opinions in this thread. I wouldn't be able to speak to the *everyone* that watches this show
    Last edited by mesachick; 10-22-2013 at 09:42 PM.
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