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Thread: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #191
    FORT Fogey norealityhere's Avatar
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Overall, not the best finals.
    I didn't like Hines' freestyle at all. He didn't really do any dancing.
    Their first dance was better.
    I enjoyed Chelsea's first dance. I did like her freestyle the best of all 3; but I think every couple was overscored tonight.
    I give Kirstie credit, but I didn't really enjoy that freestyle. The cartwheels were sloppy and the dancing wasn't very good. Like her first dance better.

    I like Hines, but don't find him the best dancer on the show.
    I give Kirstie credit for improving, but she's not at the same level as C/M or even H/K. Just because she's 60 and losing weight should not be the criteria to award her the mirrorball. Not sure why people keep bringing up her age. I'd rather they bring up the dancing which is average, sorry to say.
    Chelsea is the best of the 3, but people hold it against her because they don't like her partner.
    To Thine Own Self Be True

  2. #192
    *Until Next Season...* karalott's Avatar
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvThisStuf! View Post
    I wasn't impressed with Mark & Chelsea's freestyle. Nope. Not al all. They weren't synchronized and the choreography was more spastic than anything. I don't care for them, but thought Mark would at least try and create a decent freestyle. Wow, that was truly awful.

    I like Hines & Kym and Kirstie and Maks and wouldn't mind either one of those couples taking the mirror ball trophy. Kirstie was a trooper all season; much improved and very gracious about everything. Hines is such a hard-worker and came from no dance experience to top 3. I'm impressed with both couples and want them to take it "1-2"!

    ETA: Wait a second - are the judges giving away points again tomorrow, like they did for the winner-take-all cha-cha???? That's not fair. You know it'll go to M&C. I don't know how I'm going to stomach Mark getting another one of those mirror balls.
    Since season 2, the couples have always done a final dance for the judges scores on the final night (usually their favorite dance of the season). They used to get individual scores that would be added to their fan totals and scores from the night before. Since season 9, they rank the final 3. 1st place gets 10 points, 2nd place 8, and 3rd place 6. Since then, whatever order they get ranked, that's the actual order they ended up placing. Chelsea and Kirstie are doing their cha chas from earlier in the season, and Hines the samba. I think it will be tough, but I bet Chelsea may come out 1st or 2nd when she should have been third. It'll be interesting seeing tomorrow the tone the judges take and whether they're giving away who they want to win and who's getting thrown under the bus for the last time. I remember during season 10, Len actually told Nicole/Derek, before the remaining final 2 couple Evan/Anna did their last dance, that he wanted them to win. Cutting to Evan/Anna backstage a few minutes later, and their faces said it all.

    I'm sure Mark thought his freestyle was genius. Some quotes I read during interviews about how much of a secret he was trying to keep it, and that they could go all out. I think that's the problem with the freestyle-there are no rule or boundaries. It basically comes down to whether it flows together or not. Hip hop is encouraged, but typically comes off poorly and boring. Mark's was just odd. At least Maks tried with Kirstie. Kym's was fun and unique.

  3. #193
    FORT Fogey Florimel's Avatar
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Hines, Ralph, Kirstie, Chris Jericho, Romeo, and each of their pros have all won many admirers over the course of this show for their talent, their effort, their attitude, their dedication, and their sportsmanship even when treated unfairly by judges and producers. Whatever the outcome is, they will all be remembered for that.
    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
    -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    http://www.youravon.com/jmarko

  4. #194
    *Until Next Season...* karalott's Avatar
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by norealityhere View Post
    Overall, not the best finals.
    I didn't like Hines' freestyle at all. He didn't really do any dancing.
    Their first dance was better.
    I enjoyed Chelsea's first dance. I did like her freestyle the best of all 3; but I think every couple was overscored tonight.
    I give Kirstie credit, but I didn't really enjoy that freestyle. The cartwheels were sloppy and the dancing wasn't very good. Like her first dance better.

    I like Hines, but don't find him the best dancer on the show.
    I give Kirstie credit for improving, but she's not at the same level as C/M or even H/K. Just because she's 60 and losing weight should not be the criteria to award her the mirrorball. Not sure why people keep bringing up her age. I'd rather they bring up the dancing which is average, sorry to say.
    Chelsea is the best of the 3, but people hold it against her because they don't like her partner.
    I wouldn't not vote for Chelsea because of Mark. It'd be really hard, but if I liked her and thought she deserved my votes, I would give them to her. However, I enjoy Hines and Kirstie so much more. They're both what this show is all about for me, especially Kirstie. I enjoy Hines and think his dancing is fantastic. After tonight especially, I think he's more than earned that trophy. The judges were being far too kind in giving Mark's freestyle a perfect score. It was a mess and boring. And, I'm tired of the treatment he and Chelsea have gotten just because they're them. I think anyone else wouldn't have gotten away with half their stunts, and last week really ticked me off the way the WTA was done. Not their fault I realize, but it should tell the producers something if a couple is on the verge of being kicked off what the public thinks.

    Romeo *sob* How I would have loved to have seen him and Chelsie in the finals.

  5. #195
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by JunkieGirl View Post
    I will agree with most of the folks here that Mark/Chelsea's freestyle was not in sync. But I did love the blinking shoes and gloves, thought that was cool. A couple of years ago that was the "in" thing for little kids and let's just say I was a little jealous. I wanted blinky shoes. As for their samba, I thought the original one they did was much more fun and entertaining. Even if it was performed to that gawd-awful Miley Cyrus.
    Sadly, I think they got the 30 for having the shoes, because they're free was just horrid. Going by frees, it should be Hines and Kym, then Kirstie and Maks then Mark and Chelsea, or I'd say a 30, 27, and 24 (and here I'm being gracious) in the points they received.

    The freestyle round was underwhelming to say the least. Am I mistaken or did former champs say to choose a song that most people would know? None of the songs chosen were well known at all. Hines said they chose their song from the movie Drumline. Never heard of it.

    Overall, the judges scores stayed in sync with their final 2. I still think that Hines will take it all and the judges will be fine with that. May the best fanbase win!

    Gooooooooo Hines!
    Hines' if you listen to it is the Jackson Five's "One More Chance" and I think a little "ABC" in there. Both are well known because of Michael Jackson's tenor when he sang those with the group.

    And "Drumline" the best way to say it is it's basically the same as the title.

    Here's hoping Hines' fanbase is strong enough to overtake any and all points that they give Chelsea and Mark to try and let Mark win the trophy. They've already hurt Kirstie as far as they could. (Seriously - not even ONE 10 for what they did in free?)

  6. #196
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by norealityhere View Post
    Overall, not the best finals.
    I didn't like Hines' freestyle at all. He didn't really do any dancing.
    Their first dance was better.
    I enjoyed Chelsea's first dance. I did like her freestyle the best of all 3; but I think every couple was overscored tonight.
    I give Kirstie credit, but I didn't really enjoy that freestyle. The cartwheels were sloppy and the dancing wasn't very good. Like her first dance better.

    I like Hines, but don't find him the best dancer on the show.
    I give Kirstie credit for improving, but she's not at the same level as C/M or even H/K. Just because she's 60 and losing weight should not be the criteria to award her the mirrorball. Not sure why people keep bringing up her age. I'd rather they bring up the dancing which is average, sorry to say.
    Chelsea is the best of the 3, but people hold it against her because they don't like her partner.
    I'd just like to say in Re: to Kirstie, if you can dance like she did at 60, then you can say that her dancing is "average." People here are factoring her age and that usually someone at 60 cannot be lifted or do cartwheels without spending a day in the hospital or traction afterward. I think it's that remembering her age and putting that into consideration that counts - it's not that she's lost weight - in re: to her chance to win the trophy. But given that the judges have put her at 5 points behind the others, and will most likely give her third place essentially in the judge's dance, she will not win anyway.

    And honestly? - Mark and Chelsea's Free had just as much "Dance" as Hines and Kym's. Difference was Hines' was in sync, Chelsea's no. In fact - SHE stopped dancing for lifts whereas Kym did not and kept it flowing per lift. That is admittedly the only thing I fault on Kirstie's - as did the judges, but she did at least attempt to keep moving whereas Chelsea did not per each lift.

    Chelsea and Mark also made it to the finals by dancing a cha-cha that was not a true cha-cha but a free (it had swing and hip hop elements), and have broken dance rules that even DEREK of all people would've been dinged on (and last time he did that, he was dinged about 5 points between the judges).

    And I know that production planned the WTA dance, but when you had four good dancers, they could've pulled it. We hear it all the time about ideas that were pulled because of certain issues. Example, the old TV series "Murder In Small Town X" was actually going to eliminate a contestant before the Killer's game if they found one alone. However, they decided that since the contestants became too worried about that and their skills suffered, the removed that idea during production (meaning, all eliminations save the final two, the contestants were eliminated during the "Killer's game" - of essentially Tribal Council).

    Or in short - as I said, ABC could've pulled it and none be the wiser. I think even Tom was pissed off that Chelsea and Mark were given a spot in the finals with a dance that was a free and not cha-cha, and given 15 points that no one could make up.

    Mind you, I respect your opinion, but I really do feel the ONLY reason Chelsea and Mark are there is because of production interference. I really do not think they are as strong as other dancers based on their ages.

  7. #197
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by karalott View Post
    The judges were being far too kind in giving Mark's freestyle a perfect score. It was a mess and boring. And, I'm tired of the treatment he and Chelsea have gotten just because they're them. I think anyone else wouldn't have gotten away with half their stunts, and last week really ticked me off the way the WTA was done.
    No, not even Derek - and I respect Derek a lot more. He can at least back up his dances and learns from his mistakes, such as that free/broadway instead of quickstep he did with Nicole a couple of seasons ago (which ironically is one of my favorite dances ever).

    And I think that's the shame - as much as I've read that people get irritated with Derek and his ringers, he does at least do dances and do them properly for the most part. I do not see that with Mark. I would rather have Derek back (only as long as he gets at least subpar dancers and has to work at it - and I truly think he can do that), than Mark and his mugging and entitled attitude all season.

    Shoot, I think even last season Mark felt he should've won with a very poor dancer in Bristol.

  8. #198
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by norealityhere View Post
    Overall, not the best finals. I didn't like Hines' freestyle at all. He didn't really do any dancing. Their first dance was better. I enjoyed Chelsea's first dance. I did like her freestyle the best of all 3; but I think every couple was overscored tonight. I give Kirstie credit, but I didn't really enjoy that freestyle. The cartwheels were sloppy and the dancing wasn't very good. Like her first dance better. I like Hines, but don't find him the best dancer on the show. I give Kirstie credit for improving, but she's not at the same level as C/M or even H/K. Just because she's 60 and losing weight should not be the criteria to award her the mirrorball. Not sure why people keep bringing up her age. I'd rather they bring up the dancing which is average, sorry to say. Chelsea is the best of the 3, but people hold it against her because they don't like her partner.
    While many of us may not like Mark, I think there have also been plenty of comments about why Mark and Chelsea's routines have not always been the best either. People have specifically mentioned choreography inappropriate for particular dances (e.g. swing moves in cha-chas), poor choreography (e.g. the messy freestyle), lack of sync (e.g. again, the freestyle), overly exaggerated facial expressions (e.g. Chelsea's fish lip move when she's attempting to be sexy) etc. Personally, I also think Chelsea doesn't express the sexier or more romantic dances well, perhaps because she's just a younger, less experienced actress or perhaps because she feels awkward doing that with Mark. Perhaps it's a bit of both or something else altogether. But she certainly doesn't smolder to the extent that someone like, say, Gilles Marini did.

    It's possible people might have liked Chelsea better with a different partner. It's possible people would not have felt any differently about her or her dancing, which, frankly, often isn't as good as her scores. Or as good as that of people who've gotten tens in the past (and I freely admit the same is sometimes true of Hines and Kirstie).

    I also think people would have objected to the winner take all cha-cha even if it hadn't been used so obviously to keep C/M in, regardless of their fan base or lack thereof. If they wanted to do something about keeping less talented dancers from keeping more talented dancers out of the finals, they had plenty of occasions in the past where they could have done that, including last season, and they didn't. That's not a new phenomenon. Or they could have made it less ridiculously clear that whoever won the WTA cha-cha was obviously going to make it into the finals by awarding a reasonable number of bonus points instead of fifteen. It's highly unlikely anyone was ever going to be able to get past someone who was awarded fifteen additional points, no matter who they were. If people resent that move and prefer not to vote for C/M as a result, that's the show's fault, not the audience's.

  9. #199
    FORT Fogey KatesMom's Avatar
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    I just have to say this - Mark's outfit for the freestyle? Why didn't he just put a sign on his chest that said "watch ME, not my partner"! I agree with what others have said - I really didn't like their freestyle. I thought it looked choppy and out of sync. I wasn't surprised the judges loved it, as they have to justify him winning.

    I liked Hines and Kym's freestyle. I loved the lifts and thought it was fun.

    Kristie's freestyle, while not the most technically superior, was the most emotionally enjoyable for me. I actually teared up when the song started playing (blame having kids - I cry at commercials now)!

    Overall, I didn't think any of the freestyles were on par with ones we have seen in the past. I am hoping the producers have heard the backlash from last week. I would love it if Kristie won, but don't think that is going to happen. Of the remaining two - it should be Hines, both on fanbase/enjoyability, and on how well he has done over the whole season. I don't want Mark to win. And while I think Chelsea is a good dancer, I did not enjoy watching her.

  10. #200
    it's been a wild ride! Parkhillian's Avatar
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    Re: 5/23 Finals Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by jadewarlock View Post
    And "Drumline" the best way to say it is it's basically the same as the title.
    Since I am a freak for Marching Bands and their awesome music, I have the Drumline Soundtrack and listen to it quite often. I was totally digging Hines and Kym's freestyle and the music definitely set the tone for his "personal half-time show".

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