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Thread: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #201
    FORT Fogey veg_out's Avatar
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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky22;4112293;
    Why should the show be concerned about mollifying a political party? Unless that's what they've been doing all along, of course. That's the only explanation that makes any sense of her ridiculous scores on last night's jive. From my personal point-of-view, it would not mollify me for Bristol to come in 2nd over Kyle. Even if he were under heavy sedation and had lead in his shoes, he could still dance rings around her.
    Since the finale is now in the judges' hands, this outcome is just my opinion of the direction the show will take to prevent backlash. I obviously do not fully understand the workings of Hollywood and TV production, but I do know that they're motivated by money and drama. The more controversy, the more press, the more money. The show, however, does have a reputation on the line, that, as this board and several media outlets are discussing, is on the line were Bristol to win. At the same time, the show, Bristol, and her supporters have doggedly insisted that Bristol's success on the show is due to this massive number of votes that have allowed her to knock-out better dancers throughout the season. Whether the show has put Bristol in the finals or the voters have, the show, in my opinion only, will place her 2nd not only cuz she'll knock out Kyle again to make it to the top 2, but then the show will validate itself by preventing her from taking the cake from Jennifer. She'll come in 2nd on the merit of her voting bloc, but be prevented, only by Jenn's superior dancing and inevitable through-the-roof scores, from becoming the champ. It's the best outcome for the show, and least likely to be criticized any more than the usual complaints. If Bristol were to win, it would just be bad news bear.

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    FORT Fogey bevorules's Avatar
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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by veg_out;4112303;
    Since the finale is now in the judges' hands, this outcome is just my opinion of the direction the show will take to prevent backlash. I obviously do not fully understand the workings of Hollywood and TV production, but I do know that they're motivated by money and drama. The more controversy, the more press, the more money. The show, however, does have a reputation on the line, that, as this board and several media outlets are discussing, is on the line were Bristol to win. At the same time, the show, Bristol, and her supporters have doggedly insisted that Bristol's success on the show is due to this massive number of votes that have allowed her to knock-out better dancers throughout the season. Whether the show has put Bristol in the finals or the voters have, the show, in my opinion only, will place her 2nd not only cuz she'll knock out Kyle again to make it to the top 2, but then the show will validate itself by preventing her from taking the cake from Jennifer. She'll come in 2nd on the merit of her voting bloc, but be prevented, only by Jenn's superior dancing and inevitable through-the-roof scores, from becoming the champ. It's the best outcome for the show, and least likely to be criticized any more than the usual complaints. If Bristol were to win, it would just be bad news bear.
    I actually think you are right about this and I am a Bristol apologist. I made a simliar post in another thread. Because Bristol is so polarizing (though no fault of her own, she didn't vote herself in and can't control the press or her mom or who goes home in her place) but "at the end of the day, it is what it is" as the athletes say. I think Mark's choice of music/style/lack of tricks in the freestyle made me wonder if he was "bowing" to avoid pressure. I was angry at it because Bristol is in the final and has worked hard and deserved a routine that would highlight her strenghts, great or slight. All it did was highlight that she had never seen the show the music was from and had to completely guess at the character (remember she is the one without music or acting experience.) I think they should have done a fun pop/hip hop dance with simple choreography, but loaded it with some lifts (she did great on the one she did) and then let her just have fun with it. Scores might not have changed any, but she wouldve been able to get into the dance with her face/expressions. She had a great time in the jive and he could have done similar just with a few lifts and some hip/hop music. That is something she has seen before and would've been better off with the viewer. Haters will still say she can't dance, fans will still love her. Sorry, I got off topic but had to get that off my chest. My point is, even Mark with his choreography was trying to help ABC set Jen as the winner as her 60 points will create enough difference in the percentages that she will have to best Jennifer by 4-5% and looking at the polls on all of the media sites, she won't be able to do that. Some have her second and some have her third, but she is in there with Kyle but Jen is way out in front.
    Last edited by bevorules; 11-23-2010 at 12:42 PM. Reason: Mispelled a word.
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  3. #203
    FORT Fogey ironcat's Avatar
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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by bevorules;4112309;
    I actually think you are right about this and I am a Bristol apologist. I made a simliar post in another thread. Because Bristol is so polarizing (though no fault of her own, she didn't vote herself in and can't control the press or her mom or who goes home in her place) but "at the end of the day, it is what it is" as the athletes say. I think Mark's choice of music/style/lack of tricks in the freestyle made me wonder if he was "bowing" to avoid pressure. I was angry at it because Bristol is in the final and has worked hard and deserved a routine that would highlight her strenghts, great or slight. All it did was highlight that she had never seen the show the music was from and had to completely guess at the character (remember she is the one without music or acting experience.) I think they should have done a fun pop/hip hop dance with simple choreography, but loaded it with some lifts (she did great on the one she did) and then let her just have fun with it. Scores might not have changed any, but she wouldve been able to get into the dance with her face/expressions. She had a great time in the jive and he could have done similar just with a few lifts and some hip/hop music. That is something she has seen before and would've been better off with the viewer. Haters will still say she can't dance, fans will still love her. Sorry, I got off topic but had to get that off my chest. My point is, even Mark with his choreography was trying to help ABC set Jen as the winner as her 60 points will create enough difference in the percentages that she will have to best Jennifer by 4-5% and looking at the polls on all of the media sites, she won't be able to do that. Some have her second and some have her third, but she is in there with Kyle but Jen is way out in front.
    I really can't think of any style of dance that would have suited Bristol better, other than doing a classic tango or waltz in hold, which from what I understand, they are not supposed to do for a freestyle. At least this one allowed her to walk around a lot and pose, and required minimal actual dancing, energy or memorization of many steps. Had she done more dancing, particularly out of hold which is her waterloo, she might have made a noticeable slipup and the judges couldn't have ignored it. And I also think in this number she looked as sexy as I've seen her look, even if she couldn't act it in the performance, and she didn't embarrass herself like Marie's DDD so I guess it's a win.

    And there is no way Mark Ballas is going to throw the competition, even if the producers tell him to, I find that idea totally outrageous.

  4. #204
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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by bevorules;4112309;
    I actually think you are right about this and I am a Bristol apologist. I made a simliar post in another thread. Because Bristol is so polarizing (though no fault of her own, she didn't vote herself in and can't control the press or her mom or who goes home in her place) but "at the end of the day, it is what it is" as the athletes say. I think Mark's choice of music/style/lack of tricks in the freestyle made me wonder if he was "bowing" to avoid pressure. I was angry at it because Bristol is in the final and has worked hard and deserved a routine that would highlight her strenghts, great or slight. All it did was highlight that she had never seen the show the music was from and had to completely guess at the character (remember she is the one without music or acting experience.) I think they should have done a fun pop/hip hop dance with simple choreography, but loaded it with some lifts (she did great on the one she did) and then let her just have fun with it. Scores might not have changed any, but she wouldve been able to get into the dance with her face/expressions. She had a great time in the jive and he could have done similar just with a few lifts and some hip/hop music. That is something she has seen before and would've been better off with the viewer. Haters will still say she can't dance, fans will still love her. Sorry, I got off topic but had to get that off my chest. My point is, even Mark with his choreography was trying to help ABC set Jen as the winner as her 60 points will create enough difference in the percentages that she will have to best Jennifer by 4-5% and looking at the polls on all of the media sites, she won't be able to do that. Some have her second and some have her third, but she is in there with Kyle but Jen is way out in front.
    Mark's choice of style and lack of tricks were based on the fact that his partner is a dismal dancer who can't hold her own against the likes of Kyle and Jennifer, and Brandy, too, for that matter. He has to choreograph around her many weaknesses and lack of ability, which is no easy job. After this season, I hope ABC gives him an all-expenses-paid relaxing vacation to the tropical island of his choice. He should have "loaded it with lifts"? GMAB. I'm quite sure she weighs more than he does. One or two lifts is more than anyone could expect of him.

    I'm glad if she had a great time in the jive. For me, her leaden footwork was cringeworthy and painful to watch. And I think it's pretty vile to suggest that Mark was trying to throw the competition.

    Again with the "haters"? Did Sarah send a memo to all her supporters asking them to use that word as much as possible, inserting it into every discussion in which she, her family, and what they believe in is fairly criticized or disagreed with? You know, the kind of thing that is guaranteed in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights? Just because most of us can plainly see that Bristol should have been eliminated from this competition many weeks ago based on her ability, that doesn't make us "haters." Disagreeing or holding a different opinion does not make someone a "hater," and it seems to me that those who keep accusing others of this (especially over something as trivial as a TV dance show) are trying to stir up hate, and therefore are the REAL haters.
    Last edited by Lucky22; 11-23-2010 at 01:24 PM.

  5. #205
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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky22;4112340;
    Again with the "haters"? Did Sarah send a memo to all her supporters asking them to use that word as much as possible, inserting it into every discussion in which she, her family, and what they believe in is fairly criticized or disagreed with? You know, the kind of thing that is guaranteed in the US Constitution and Bill of Rights? Just because most of us can plainly see that Bristol should have been eliminated from this competition many weeks ago based on her ability, that doesn't make us "haters." Disagreeing or holding a different opinion does not make someone a "hater," and it seems to me that those who keep accusing others of this (especially over something as trivial as a TV dance show) are trying to stir up hate, and therefore are the REAL haters.
    Well said.

    Quote Originally Posted by bevorules
    (edited)... I think Mark's choice of music/style/lack of tricks in the freestyle made me wonder if he was "bowing" to avoid pressure. I was angry at it because Bristol is in the final and has worked hard and deserved a routine that would highlight her strenghts, great or slight....
    After watching the clips with Bruno desperately trying to get her to open up a little, and her flatly refusing, it's quite apparant that Bristol is averse to to working hard on that matter. It appeared to me that Mark was trying to give her a routine where she could be overthetop in expression (that's Broadway, baby), to HELP her on what people complain about most. And it wasn't that she was trying and not getting it. She was refusing to try.

  6. #206
    FORT Fogey Beachmom's Avatar
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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by bevorules;4112309;
    I actually think you are right about this and I am a Bristol apologist. I made a simliar post in another thread. Because Bristol is so polarizing (though no fault of her own, she didn't vote herself in and can't control the press or her mom or who goes home in her place) but "at the end of the day, it is what it is" as the athletes say. I think Mark's choice of music/style/lack of tricks in the freestyle made me wonder if he was "bowing" to avoid pressure. I was angry at it because Bristol is in the final and has worked hard and deserved a routine that would highlight her strenghts, great or slight. All it did was highlight that she had never seen the show the music was from and had to completely guess at the character (remember she is the one without music or acting experience.) I think they should have done a fun pop/hip hop dance with simple choreography, but loaded it with some lifts (she did great on the one she did) and then let her just have fun with it. Scores might not have changed any, but she wouldve been able to get into the dance with her face/expressions. She had a great time in the jive and he could have done similar just with a few lifts and some hip/hop music. That is something she has seen before and would've been better off with the viewer. Haters will still say she can't dance, fans will still love her. Sorry, I got off topic but had to get that off my chest. My point is, even Mark with his choreography was trying to help ABC set Jen as the winner as her 60 points will create enough difference in the percentages that she will have to best Jennifer by 4-5% and looking at the polls on all of the media sites, she won't be able to do that. Some have her second and some have her third, but she is in there with Kyle but Jen is way out in front.
    I'm going to disagree with the others and agree with you. I always wondered about the pros' choices for the freestyle and came to the conclusion they were "advised" what to do. That makes sense and it might even be in their contracts. The producers probably meet with them and discuss it. With all of the publicity about this season, they couldn't take any chances, so they had to give them a safe bet. Not that Bristol was going to knock it out of the park anyway, but they didn't want to give her something that would endear her any more to the viewers (well, a lot of them anyway)!


    I've said all along: this was Jennifer's season from the get go. I'm sure she knows it. Kyle kind of came out of nowhere, and the "Bristol situtation" probably was more intense than the producers imagined.

    I want Kyle to win, but he won't. The reason I don't want Jennifer to win is I think she's been exaggerating her physcial limitations. Even a guy I was talking to this morning talked about that and wondered how she could do it. He wondered how she could bend her head down so Derek could jump over it. I wish they hadn't highlighted that as much as they did.

    I think it will be Bristol, then Kyle, then Jennifer for the win. Earlier in the season, I thought it would be Brandy, then Rick, then Jennifer.
    Stay tuned for "Dancing with the Dancers"!

  7. #207
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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Yes, young girls are voting for bristol. Most of them probably have never heard of Chicago. I know my teenager would not be interested in that kind of dance. Something fun would have been more helpful for Bristol. Not sure what Mark was trying to prove but do not think he helped her with that freestyle. That and the monkey suit, two bad choices.

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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Beachmom;4112375;
    I'm going to disagree with the others and agree with you. I always wondered about the pros' choices for the freestyle and came to the conclusion they were "advised" what to do. That makes sense and it might even be in their contracts. The producers probably meet with them and discuss it. With all of the publicity about this season, they couldn't take any chances, so they had to give them a safe bet. Not that Bristol was going to knock it out of the park anyway, but they didn't want to give her something that would endear her any more to the viewers (well, a lot of them anyway)!


    I've said all along: this was Jennifer's season from the get go. I'm sure she knows it. Kyle kind of came out of nowhere, and the "Bristol situtation" probably was more intense than the producers imagined.

    I want Kyle to win, but he won't. The reason I don't want Jennifer to win is I think she's been exaggerating her physcial limitations. Even a guy I was talking to this morning talked about that and wondered how she could do it. He wondered how she could bend her head down so Derek could jump over it. I wish they hadn't highlighted that as much as they did.

    I think it will be Bristol, then Kyle, then Jennifer for the win. Earlier in the season, I thought it would be Brandy, then Rick, then Jennifer.
    Believe what you want, but those of us who have watched many seasons have often heard the pros describe specifically how they came up with their freestyle ideas, and it had nothing to do with producer interference. I find the idea kind of laughable that they would make any suggestions, because to the best of my knowledge, the producers are not dance professionals. If Mark has wanted to do this Broadway routine for a while and both Kristi and Shawn nixed it, I am not surprised he brought it up once again with Bristol. And since she seems to have gone through this whole competition as more of a spectator, never voicing her opinion and letting Mark just tell her what to do, I'm not surprised she just went along with it rather than say she'd prefer to do something else, or g-d forbid, actually offer an idea of her own.

  9. #209
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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Even though Bristol should have left long ago, and if she said the word "haters" one more time I was going to shoot my television, it was an enjoyable show last night. Kyle really shined and did such a great job! He has never been my favorite, but I love his spunkiness and how much he has improved and matured throughout this show.

    Jennifer is by far my favorite, though, and has been for a long time. She is elegant and beautiful in her dancing and I hope she wins! I've never been a big voter on these shows, but seeing how unliked Jen is here, I knew that I had to make sure and get as many votes in there for her as I could. We used all of our cell phones last night to get her our votes.

    IMO, either Jennifer winning (my preference), or Kyle (for his growth), would be a good outcome tonight. I truly hope Bristol does not win because of some ridiculous political movement. It should be about the dancing, and based on last night's performances, she just does not deserve to win.

  10. #210
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    Re: 11/22 Finale Night 1 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Beachmom;4112375;
    I'm going to disagree with the others and agree with you. I always wondered about the pros' choices for the freestyle and came to the conclusion they were "advised" what to do. That makes sense and it might even be in their contracts. The producers probably meet with them and discuss it.
    I've said all along: this was Jennifer's season from the get go. I'm sure she knows it. Kyle kind of came out of nowhere, and the "Bristol situtation" probably was more intense than the producers imagined.

    I want Kyle to win, but he won't. The reason I don't want Jennifer to win is I think she's been exaggerating her physcial limitations. Even a guy I was talking to this morning talked about that and wondered how she could do it. He wondered how she could bend her head down so Derek could jump over it. I wish they hadn't highlighted that as much as they did.
    You make some very good points - especially in regard to the producers perhaps having input into the freestyle. I honestly felt at the time that was the case with Mya. Her freestyle wasn't what she originally was pushing for and I think it contributed to her losing. I felt that the producers might have pushed Dmitry into a safer, more boring routine so that Donny could more easily be proclaimed the winner. Mya was one of the "ringer-est" ringers they've ever had and her winning might have not been as much of a "feel good" ending as Donny's was.
    If Bristol scores poorly (relatively speaking) on her freestyle and her number is less relateable to young people who vote for her than dancing a hip-hop number (for example,) she will have less of a votes+judges score to overcome than she might otherwise which will allow the judges to use their scores tonight to insure Jennifer or Kyle wins.
    As for me, at this point there isn't anyone I'd like to see win. Bristol: I don't feel she deserves it (though no, I'm not a "hater. ) I certainly see improvement, just not enough to justify her winning. Plus even though she is young, I don't think she's handled herself with as much "grace" as she could have in these last few weeks. Jennifer was the one I thought I'd be pulling for when the cast was originally announced but the combination of her partner (who hasn't been as bad a usual but still...) and her complaining about her injuries has gotten on my nerves. And finally, Kyle. He would be a shoe-in for me. Great personality, cute as a button and the essense of what I think the show stands for BUT...oh my gosh! Lacey????? For me, she has been more irritating this season than ever before - and I never have cared for her. I hate the idea that she would think that Kyle winning was all her doing when actually, his personality and charisma are what has gotten him through IMO, in spite of Lacey.
    Like it or not, fair or foul, for me the pros are in many cases as big or bigger "stars" than their partners and it does influence my voting - or lack of it.
    So last night I voted for NO ONE because at this point, I. Just. Don't. Care.

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