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Thread: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #191
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I don't know if Mark has ever got "bloody" I assume that with 20 championships that may have occurred from time to time. The fact that it's not in a cage for television doesn't make him less credible as fighter.

  2. #192
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Andiemywestie;3734339;
    I don't know if Mark has ever got "bloody" I assume that with 20 championships that may have occurred from time to time. The fact that it's not in a cage for television doesn't make him less credible as fighter.
    **********
    Ok, let me break this down.
    Martial artists are graded on technique. One of the cardinal rules is that they not actually hurt each other. It is the art form that they display. It is one dimensional in that they compete in one form of their "art," ie karate, jujitsu, judo, kung fu, etc. Their matches are very controlled. Sometimes, they break pine boards and scream a lot.
    Ultimate fighters actually fight, and the goal is to hurt the opponent as bad as they can until they are knocked out or submit. ALL forms of martial arts are combined as well as boxing, wrestling, and others forms of submission, to deliver the maximum punishment.
    I recently attended an international MMA open tournament - and the international judo champion was choked out in the first round, after taking enormous punishment. He had never really been hit, and had no ground game.
    So I apologize on behalf of Chuck and the UFC if they don't take Mark's game seriously, but if you understand sports, you'll know why.
    To real UFC fighters, pure martial artists are soft, untested, and not on the same level. Which is largely why they don't draw crowds, or make money like UFC fighters do.
    Hence, the lack of much for these two to talk about, which was all I was saying.
    Last edited by sdl; 10-23-2009 at 01:06 AM.

  3. #193
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by sdl;3734230;
    *************
    Thank you!
    I just remembered 2 things that are kind of interesting. I keep lousy notes but have a pretty decent memory.
    Both of them are a bit more in the realm of speculation, fair enough? Because they were only opinions expressed in the course of our conversation but worth mentioning:
    1. Tom DeLay was a disaster, and the people at ABC aren't complete morons so they sort of saw it coming. But DeLay really wanted to be on the show, "lobbied" for it, and was initially rejected. Then one day they get a memo from the penthouse that Tom will be on the show. The scuttlebutt was that DeLay called in favors from his days in Congress - bills he had supported which benefitted ABC and it's parent company that made it impossible to turn him down. There were even questions about the validity of those stress fractures - once they held up their end of the bargain.
    I have no way of proving this as fact unless I read the last 20 years of the Congressional record, so take it for what it's worth.
    sdl, I trust your information and your source, but this is one time I'd have to say that this part of it does not sound right at all (to me) just based on government-related logic. Even if he supported bills in the past that benefited ABC, the key phrase in that is "in the past." If such bills even existed, ABC has long since gotten their perks or whatever and he wouldn't be able to revoke it now. If he was a current politician, I could see it as a possibility (but still wouldn't buy it), but he's not.

    I don't have insiders on Capitol Hill, but I can't think of much of anyone who wants to be associated with him politically these days, so it's not like he could threaten old allies to do something to ABC if he didn't get the show offer. Even if he could do that, it wouldn't matter since the Reps have no power in Congress ATM. So, from my perspective, there's no way it was "impossible to turn him down." He holds no power over them; if they didn't want him, they could've just said no and stuck to it.

    To me, if that's the idea they're floating around as to why he was cast, then it sounds like the higher ups (not your source, but the in charge folks) are trying to find a cop out as to why he was cast. I still believe it was to generate controversy and buzz.

  4. #194
    *Until Next Season...* karalott's Avatar
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I guess the bright side is, at least they got Tom out of the way on a bad season even without him. And maybe this will make them re-consider in the future before casting politicians, religious or controversial figures.

    I'll be curious what they'll do for the 10th season coming up and how they'll revamp it. They have to know that this season was probably the biggest dud even though it's not over yet.
    Last edited by karalott; 10-23-2009 at 02:40 AM.

  5. #195
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by sdl;3734359;
    **********

    To real UFC fighters, pure martial artists are soft, untested, and not on the same level. Which is largely why they don't draw crowds, or make money like UFC fighters do.
    Hence, the lack of much for these two to talk about, which was all I was saying.
    I don't know if Mark is a master, or even claims to be one...but a Kung Fu master would be amused by the UFC techniques..as you say Kung Fu is a defensive method of fight...A grappler, like Liddell would come at you and you use your Art to put him down. Very small men, like Shaolin Monks' artistry against a grappler would be fun to watch. If there's a lack of respect for fight artistry, you do so at your peril.

  6. #196
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by VAgirl79;3734367;
    sdl, I trust your information and your source, but this is one time I'd have to say that this part of it does not sound right at all (to me) just based on government-related logic. Even if he supported bills in the past that benefited ABC, the key phrase in that is "in the past." If such bills even existed, ABC has long since gotten their perks or whatever and he wouldn't be able to revoke it now. If he was a current politician, I could see it as a possibility (but still wouldn't buy it), but he's not.

    I don't have insiders on Capitol Hill, but I can't think of much of anyone who wants to be associated with him politically these days, so it's not like he could threaten old allies to do something to ABC if he didn't get the show offer. Even if he could do that, it wouldn't matter since the Reps have no power in Congress ATM. So, from my perspective, there's no way it was "impossible to turn him down." He holds no power over them; if they didn't want him, they could've just said no and stuck to it.

    To me, if that's the idea they're floating around as to why he was cast, then it sounds like the higher ups (not your source, but the in charge folks) are trying to find a cop out as to why he was cast. I still believe it was to generate controversy and buzz.
    *************
    VAgirl79,
    I can't disagree with you at all.
    That's why I tried to be very careful to say that this part of what I was passing along from a long conversation that was generally very factual was only "speculation" and nothing more than the "scuttlebutt" among some people at the network. I listened and wasn't even sure I believed it, but it was an interesting bit of gossip that at least some people at ABC believed it so I passed it along for whatever it was worth.
    Casting DeLay was so controversial and unpopular that I think some people who were tasked with having to do it were searching for answers as to why they would be overruled and told to bring him in. They were not happy and so they speculated as to how it could happen. I have no problem with discarding it as office gossip and I really tried to convey that even as I was passing it on.
    My feeling is that most people want to hear the facts and the internal rumors, and as long as I make clear the difference between the two, I've properly brought these things to the forum.
    So we are cool.

  7. #197
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Totally cool sdl. I love reading your insights and information and gossip and HUMOR!! And you do a great job of letting us know what is what.

    Honestly, I'm not watching this season - last season just was too emotional for me, and I know it shouldn't have been, but what the heck.
    Your posting and others have at least made reading these threads enjoyable and I look forward to coming here each day.
    I also love Peacheaters knowledgeable and informational posts regarding the actual dances and dancers (as lame as that word may be in some instances)
    No Rain - No Rainbows - Nextel commercial

  8. #198
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by sdl;3734453;
    *************
    VAgirl79,
    I can't disagree with you at all.
    That's why I tried to be very careful to say that this part of what I was passing along from a long conversation that was generally very factual was only "speculation" and nothing more than the "scuttlebutt" among some people at the network. I listened and wasn't even sure I believed it, but it was an interesting bit of gossip that at least some people at ABC believed it so I passed it along for whatever it was worth.
    Casting DeLay was so controversial and unpopular that I think some people who were tasked with having to do it were searching for answers as to why they would be overruled and told to bring him in. They were not happy and so they speculated as to how it could happen. I have no problem with discarding it as office gossip and I really tried to convey that even as I was passing it on.
    My feeling is that most people want to hear the facts and the internal rumors, and as long as I make clear the difference between the two, I've properly brought these things to the forum.
    So we are cool.
    You are often an example of "Don't shoot the messenger!"
    It stands to reason that when we get news of what is going on behind the scenes, we aren't going to like all of it, nor are we going to agree with all of it or the way some of it has been handled. However, that isn't going to change the way things are.

    I do like the way that you make the distinct effort to differentiate (for us) between what you are told specifically and what you infer or conclude from what you have been told.

    Many thanks, however, for all of the inside info. It makes the contestants, pros, producers, and the season more interesting.
    Take my advice. I am not using it.

  9. #199
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Andiemywestie;3734437;
    I don't know if Mark is a master, or even claims to be one...but a Kung Fu master would be amused by the UFC techniques..as you say Kung Fu is a defensive method of fight...A grappler, like Liddell would come at you and you use your Art to put him down. Very small men, like Shaolin Monks' artistry against a grappler would be fun to watch. If there's a lack of respect for fight artistry, you do so at your peril.
    ************
    Maybe so, but how would we know? We've never seen them actually fight.
    The Shaolin Monks, for those who have no idea what we are talking about, live in an ancient Chinese Monastery, where they developed a form of martial arts that served as the basis for the 70's TV show Kung Fu. It starred David Carradine as an American kid who was inexplicably raised by a really old blind monk who would say things like, "Grasshopper, when you can snatch the rock from my hand, you may leave this pastoral place."
    Ok, so one day, Grasshopper lucks out and gets the rock away from the old blind guy, and he goes to America to "walk the Earth." He is a peaceful man, and not the slightest bit Chinese, but for some reason in every town he reaches the drunken rednecks call him "Chinaman" and take wild swings at him. So he beats them up and that's the show.
    All I was ever saying was that Mark, the chef who doesn't cook and the martial artist who hits boards not people, did not bond with Chuck Lidell who beats the crap out of people of all martial arts persuasions for a living.
    I'm sure if David Carradine or Mark or some of those monks would like to step into the Octagon, it would be the best payday any of them ever had (especially the monks!!) - and a rare breather for Chuck.
    Last edited by sdl; 10-23-2009 at 11:06 AM.

  10. #200
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    Re: 10/20 Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Maybe it's just me (but I don't think so) that doesn't find "beating the crap out of people" (for real) entertainment. Of course, the explanation that such goes on is because of $$$ (and unrestrained impulses, mismanaged anger/rage and attempts to justify such). Sorry (not really), but I don't have any respect for Chuck and others doing such.

    Zeesh.
    The Bachelor/Bachelorette series is a soap opera with unskilled actors, bad writing, and beautiful locations...it even edits the real moon!

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