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Thread: *Improving the Show*

  1. #111
    FORT Fogey ironcat's Avatar
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    Quote Originally Posted by LuvThisStuf!;3904149;
    OK, karalott, let's start building the line-up for them, shall we? We'll take Mr. Slater, and Mr. Fillion, to start. ....... And someone for Maks. I'm good. That would make my season.
    I read an interview with Kristen Dalton (current Miss USA and girlfriend of Reid Rosenthal) where she states that after giving up her crown (tonight), she wants to do DWTS. Apparently, she loves to salsa dance. Wonder if that's Derek's next partner right there?

  2. #112
    FORT Fogey LuvThisStuf!'s Avatar
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat;3904335;
    I read an interview with Kristen Dalton (current Miss USA and girlfriend of Reid Rosenthal) where she states that after giving up her crown (tonight), she wants to do DWTS. Apparently, she loves to salsa dance. Wonder if that's Derek's next partner right there?
    Is there a smarty-pants icon?

    You know, you've just ticked-off the folks at abc.....they were going to keep this a surprise! Wait - is this the surprise Tom was alluding to in his tweets?

  3. #113
    *Until Next Season...* karalott's Avatar
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat;3904335;
    I read an interview with Kristen Dalton (current Miss USA and girlfriend of Reid Rosenthal) where she states that after giving up her crown (tonight), she wants to do DWTS. Apparently, she loves to salsa dance. Wonder if that's Derek's next partner right there?
    Derek's gotten enough of the young, pretty girls who can move (or at least attempt to look good as he dances around them). He needs someone older and who he needs to actually work on! And even though Kristen Dalton would probably come in with the same fan base issues as the previous two beauty queens who did this show, I'm sure the judges would love her. And maybe she can dance, who knows.

    Since the show will probably never not cast ringers, my suggestions would be Tony Danza (he's 5'9" so maybe they can pair him with Chelsie-I don't think that would be too tall for her). She's definitely due a good dancing partner. Either of the girls from TLC (we need more girl banders), and Michelle Kwan. All are on the shorter side so let Louis have them and not Mark/Derek. Louis's never had anything close to a ringer on this show. I think he's one of a handful who hasn't.

  4. #114
    Magical Elf MFWalkoff's Avatar
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat;3904335;
    I read an interview with Kristen Dalton (current Miss USA and girlfriend of Reid Rosenthal) where she states that after giving up her crown (tonight), she wants to do DWTS. Apparently, she loves to salsa dance. Wonder if that's Derek's next partner right there?
    Nope. Derek never gets the America's Sweethearts. He gets the ones who are the best dancers, but are easy to portray as a diva or bad girl. This way he can dance his heart out every season, yet never win.

    She seems more like a Tony pairing to me. Since she's made from the same cookie cutter as Melissa.
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  5. #115
    FORT Fogey Florimel's Avatar
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    If, as Karalott suggests and I agree, ringers will always be with us, then I nominate Summer Glau for Louis. She's the right height and there's nothing he could choreograph that she couldn't perform. She's 5'5" tall.
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  6. #116
    *Until Next Season...* karalott's Avatar
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    Quote Originally Posted by MFWalkoff;3904831;
    Nope. Derek never gets the America's Sweethearts. He gets the ones who are the best dancers, but are easy to portray as a diva or bad girl. This way he can dance his heart out every season, yet never win.

    She seems more like a Tony pairing to me. Since she's made from the same cookie cutter as Melissa.
    Maybe they can pair him with ousted Miss CA USA Carrie Prejean. She's about as far from being America's Sweetheart as one could get

    Kristen's tall, so probably a Tony/Maks/Dmitry/Jonathan/Alec partner. If they don't want her to last and find her personality as fun as dishwater, then she'll probably get anyone but Maks. Even if she's a good dancer, popularity definitely takes #1 in the beginning.

    On the ringers front, I don't mind good dancing, but I really hope there isn't as many people that far out in front as Mya, Kristi, and Nicole. I think even Mel B and Sabrina had their own flaws they had to work on. Unless they have a bunch of them in the cast and that way there isn't the final 2 determined week 1. I just hope there's a better balance of casting. I like that the general mix this season was somewhat that everyone had ability, at least the first week. I figure we'll never see the end of the horrible hoofers but they need to rotate who always gets stuck with the obvious early outs.

  7. #117
    FORT Fanatic hikari's Avatar
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    would like to see at least a portion of the show devoted to the basics of REAL ballroom dancing. What we are seeing week after week after week is "show dancing with elements of ballroom". I understand why the producers have to go with this tack--legitimate ballroom would probably be "too square" to retain audiences. But 90% of the time the selected music by Prince or Lady Gaga or Rihanna does not go with these dances, and the costuming and 'business' just goes over the top. I'm tired of seeing all these spangles and jackets that come off and turn inside out and having the girls dragged all over the floor and spun around to show their crotches to America and how flexible they are at touching the floor and so forth. Enough with dancing on desks and eating flowers and beating each other with newspapers . . .can't we just dance?

    My favorite dances are usually the Argentine tangoes, such as the one Nicole and Derek did the the other night, because it was a beautiful, suitable costume, a recognizable tango beat and steps . . .they would not be laughed out of any dance club in Buenos Aires with that dance. I guess, along with Len, I think that the actual art of dancing is lost among all the frippery and though many of the numbers wouldn't be out of place in a Las Vegas floor show, it is not in the most technical sense of the word, classic ballroom dancing. I know Len gets on people's nerves for being crabby and picky and unwarm and fuzzy, but I respect his input precisely because he is a seasoned ballroom judge. The others are from the video music world and while they know a certain kind of dancing, it's sure not ballroom. So I feel CA and Bruno tend to be overly gushy about the flashy parts of a routine, while Len focuses on proper form. So a compliment from Len is well-deserved, and not just smoke and mirrors.

    ********************

    It seemed a few weeks back that they used "themes" for the week, and it should be that way always. Perhaps it would be more 'fair' in terms of judging to have all our couples assigned the same dances week by week, or at least the same level of difficulty of dance. It doesn't seem altogether fair that one couple gets to do a waltz while another has the same amount of time to do a samba. The most difficult dances should be reserved for later in the competition when skill levels have improved. Also, they only did one week of technical & artistic dual marks: why not do those every week? I enjoyed seeing the salient parts of the dance (in our case the rhumba) being broken down, so I knew what elements to look for. Also if each couple had to do, say, a tango on the same night, it would be easier to tell who had nailed the elements better and who was weak.

    Also--please get a cover band who can sing! Or better yet, obtain permission to use the actual artists' recordings. They compound the issue of an inappropriate song for a dance by having it sung really badly! Perhaps they could get around this by using all instrumental numbers.

  8. #118
    FORT Fanatic moflan's Avatar
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    Quote Originally Posted by hikari;3906876;
    It seemed a few weeks back that they used "themes" for the week, and it should be that way always. Perhaps it would be more 'fair' in terms of judging to have all our couples assigned the same dances week by week, or at least the same level of difficulty of dance. It doesn't seem altogether fair that one couple gets to do a waltz while another has the same amount of time to do a samba. The most difficult dances should be reserved for later in the competition when skill levels have improved. Also, they only did one week of technical & artistic dual marks: why not do those every week? I enjoyed seeing the salient parts of the dance (in our case the rhumba) being broken down, so I knew what elements to look for. Also if each couple had to do, say, a tango on the same night, it would be easier to tell who had nailed the elements better and who was weak.

    Also--please get a cover band who can sing! Or better yet, obtain permission to use the actual artists' recordings. They compound the issue of an inappropriate song for a dance by having it sung really badly! Perhaps they could get around this by using all instrumental numbers.
    I agree on all counts, particularly on the judges giving two sets of scores. I most appreciate Len's feedback because he tends to more specific about what he is looking for or how a hold was broken or something.

    If everyone had the same style of dance, it would be easier to do an apples-to-apples comparison. The key elements of each dance could be shown and demonstrated in the beginning of each episode and then the viewing audience would know what the judges are looking for and could recognize the more challenging choreography or the cleaner, crisper execution of the moves that are in each routine.

    It would be helpful for some of the Latin dances to have instrumental music or at least music that is in the same genre as the type of dance. As much as I wasn't inspired by Niecy and Louis' Paso to a 90's Diva song, I was impressed that Louis choreographed anything to that type of music. Meanwhile, I've noticed that Derek tends to get instrumental, latin-sounding music when he has a Latin dance to do.

    One more thing that would help my pop-culture education come along would be to identify the song name and original artist when it is played. Because my children are schoolaged, I had no idea who Lady Gaga was until she appeared on DWTS and I wouldn't have been able to identify any of her songs, were it not for posters letting me know that she was the artist whose music was butchered.

    I don't think they'll ever use the recorded version of the music as the live orchestra adds to the excitement of the performance.

  9. #119
    *Until Next Season...* karalott's Avatar
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    I say ban any KISS song if last night's DAD is any indication of how that'll go. I didn't even watch the whole dance but that was the most bizarre thing I think I've seen on this show. Hopefully this is the last DAD we see. I hope they don't try pairing celebs up with the judges next season to keep it going.

    would like to see at least a portion of the show devoted to the basics of REAL ballroom dancing. What we are seeing week after week after week is "show dancing with elements of ballroom". I understand why the producers have to go with this tack--legitimate ballroom would probably be "too square" to retain audiences. But 90% of the time the selected music by Prince or Lady Gaga or Rihanna does not go with these dances, and the costuming and 'business' just goes over the top. I'm tired of seeing all these spangles and jackets that come off and turn inside out and having the girls dragged all over the floor and spun around to show their crotches to America and how flexible they are at touching the floor and so forth. Enough with dancing on desks and eating flowers and beating each other with newspapers . . .can't we just dance?
    I remember Tom saying once if people want to see ballroom, they should watch the PBS ballroom challenge. It's a show devoted to ballroom dancing and hopefully the show never changes that, because they aren't going to get the younger demographic. Everything they've tried doing has failed in that regard. I agree with you and have said numerous times that relying heavily on gimmicks and props has really taken something away from the show. Back in the early seasons, there was none of that, and they were still able to come out with wonderful, memorable, hard routines. I remember Tony choreographing a jive to These Boots Are Made for Walking with Sara Evans (not exactly a jive song, and yes, Tony was strumming a guitar for the first few seconds but it's not like he starting dancing with it or smashed it on the ground for effect). A lot of routines that spring to mind with Stacy Keibler, Apolo, Helio, Mel B, were all just good, solid dancing, no messing about, no OTT Broadway style flashy production. I'm not totally against the music they use, but they really need to make it fit the song more (I'll never forgive this show for making Natalie/Alec dance a paso to American Woman, while pretty much everyone else doing a paso that night got better styled music for their pasos). What I don't like is they know Len doesn't like it, he's going to complain and take points down, and then everyone gets mad when he does and the couples look on in shock like they can't believe it. What you said about CA and Bruno is what I've been thinking; they may be experts in dance, but they're from a different genre, and therefore seem to prefer a more flash and trash (as Maks and Tony called it) to the technical routines that aren't so gimmick heavy and actually not even the proper routine. Eventually that's what'll happen. It'll be all about presentation, and who cares if they even do the right dance. I may not always agree with Len, but I respect him more than the other two, and think when he sees something wrong, something went wrong. He usually doesn't pick on people for nothing (except maybe Maks for going shirtless-definitely disagree with him there )

    It seemed a few weeks back that they used "themes" for the week, and it should be that way always. Perhaps it would be more 'fair' in terms of judging to have all our couples assigned the same dances week by week, or at least the same level of difficulty of dance. It doesn't seem altogether fair that one couple gets to do a waltz while another has the same amount of time to do a samba. The most difficult dances should be reserved for later in the competition when skill levels have improved. Also, they only did one week of technical & artistic dual marks: why not do those every week? I enjoyed seeing the salient parts of the dance (in our case the rhumba) being broken down, so I knew what elements to look for. Also if each couple had to do, say, a tango on the same night, it would be easier to tell who had nailed the elements better and who was weak.

    Also--please get a cover band who can sing! Or better yet, obtain permission to use the actual artists' recordings. They compound the issue of an inappropriate song for a dance by having it sung really badly! Perhaps they could get around this by using all instrumental numbers.
    I'm not big on the themes, but enjoyed them. I do think some of the dance themes need to be evened out a little more. If they want to do decade dancing again, drop the 90s. It's the worst decade to have to mimmick. I think the team dances were on the right track this season, with each group doing the same dance, and somewhat evenly matched. But the two songs didn't even compare. I'd rather see more pro performances and demonstrations compared to DAD or even these kiddie/college dance competitions. I never understood why the show has to use a live band. I still can't believe they actually sing the theme song. They get worse every season. If the band has the rights to use the songs to sing, shouldn't the show be allowed to actually use the real recording? I sometimes think the band dooms a couple more. How can they even listen to themselves, listen to the original song, and say they're any good?

    I hope next season is less predictable. Every week even the couples seem to know who will be on top and who's the most vulnerable, and who will come out winning the marathons/team dances. I might also suggest dropping the final 3 dance off challenge, as I think again it's just an attempt to boost the judges favorites and we all know, if they do a 1-2-3 ranking like they do for the marathon dances, how the order will be. I'd rather see them stick to their own individual dances. It was nice back in the day having everyone depending on themselves and not the other couples, and not having to be in direct contrast. And having a variety on the leaderboard.

  10. #120
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: *Improving the Show*

    How do they choose the music? I think the music choices are strange to say the least. Making them do a Paso to all the choices is odd. Certain dances you can incorporate mainstream music, but a Paso needs a certain type to not look like a production.

    I think that the show needs to stop changing what they are, and work on changing the things that are broken. Adding a dance off is ridiculous. Everyone knows who the best dancers are when they are not side by side. Showing them together in that mess is dumb. I think if they are going to keep the current judges, than expand the show to include other areas of dance. Carrie amd BrimpIt is not Ballroom dancing with the stars so why not include some of the types that are on SYTYCD. I also think that they should incorporate the pros not dancing to do the choreography. Why not have a rotation and have one season they dance, and one they choreograph?

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