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Thread: 7/6 Finale Show Discussion**Spoilers**

  1. #211
    That's all folks! Unklescott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemeses
    ... Kelly was assured to be there from the beginning, and no matter who else was the other celebrity, they would have lost.
    So is that why the she got the lowest score by the judges on the first show?
    Week 1 judge's scores:
    1. Joey and Ashly: 20
    1. Rachel and Jonathon: 20
    1. John and Charlotte: 20
    4. Evander and Edyta: 18
    4. Trista and Louis: 18
    6. Kelly and Alec: 13
    I certainly agree the the final dance did not deserve 10's. However maybe something to consider is that the judges did not hold the dancers to the same standards they would have had this been a professional competition.

  2. #212
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    Well, I haven't posted on this show for a while, but believe me when I say I watched it weekly. It really was a fun show. It was competitive and people really worked hard and yet there was no mud slinging, no alliances, etc. Was John robbed? I think yes. But, I will give Kelly credit for having to film and dance at the same time and for improving a bit, but really not that much. Will I watch the show again? You betcha!! Sometimes, you need a bit of fluffly brain candy, and this show provides it in bunches.
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  3. #213
    FORT Fogey
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertRose
    But why would they Estella? They don't want to lose you and others as a viewer. Why run the risk of losing most of you (from what I read). And if so, why chose Kelly? Aren't there bigger and better stars at ABC?
    Well, I'm not Estella, but let me give this a shot -
    ABC is have a stellar year, something they haven't had in years. They want desperately to spread this good fortune to all other aspects of their programming - GMA, news, daytime - so once the show got rolling a little bit and they saw it was a hit, why not promote one of their own from daytime TV and let her be the Comeback Kid and take it all? Great publicity and maybe a few additional viewers to see Kelly in her daytime role?

    I don't begin to understand why TV execs do what they do, but rigging the outcome of a TV program is not unheard of and certainly has been done (somewhat successfully) in the past.

    What I do know is that I love to watch ballroom dancing and have watched a number of competitions on PBS, but I'm no expert. I did, however, see mistakes in just about all of Kelly's performances (and other stars too, I don't want to just single out Kelly). So if I can spot a mistake with my little knowledge of ballroom dancing, what was wrong with the judges last night? And yes, these are not professionals, but if there are blatant missteps, no one should be getting 10's.

    The judges and ABC blew this one. Big time.

  4. #214
    Kanai Nemeses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unklescott
    So is that why the she got the lowest score by the judges on the first show?
    It wouldn't have mattered, Unk. If the winner is determined by the producers from the beginning, the voting would/could have been manipulated at any point along the way where it was needed, just as it was with the 3 10's. You forget the magical mystery undivulged audience voting, also.

    And as for lowest score? Absolutely textbook for Maintaining A 'Drama' Factor 101. Whoever your final winner is going to be, make sure you have a 'surprising finish' by making sure they don't appear to be a favorite or shoe-in along the way.

    So anyway, I'm done with the show thread until next season when I'll watch because I love the dancing. Too bad my strongest memory of the show until next season is how blatantly dishonest ABC made it. But that's ABC's loss, not mine, so I'll see you guys next season! It's been fun watching it with you all, in spite of ABC's disrespect for it's viewers.

    See ya next season!
    Last edited by Nemeses; 07-07-2005 at 05:43 PM.
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  5. #215
    Ms Ambusher dberk's Avatar
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    Kelly didn't just get the lowest score on Day 1; she was brutally bashed by all of the judges as well. They were shockingly abusive to her. This abuse probably led to viewer pity votes until the judges started responding more favorably.

    I don't think anyone is arguing that Kelly worked very hard. If there was a "fix" (which I doubt) she wasn't involved and shouldn't have her moment spoiled by the distrust.

    One thing that consistently surprised me during every elimination was that the professionals didn't seem to take it personally. Only Ashley seemed to understand how key she was to Joey's continued success.

  6. #216
    Yoffy lifts a finger... fluff's Avatar
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    I admire how Kelly was feisty enough to put her all into the performances after getting such stinging criticism in the early shows.
    I don't think she was the best dancer by a long way.
    IMO, John, Joey and Rachel were all better both as individuals and as a team with their partners.
    I hate to think that pity voting played a part, but it often does and we know that any time the public is asked to vote there will likely be issues with the winner.
    I thought Kelly did well, she just was far from the best imo.

  7. #217
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    Congrats to Kelly and Alec... I don't want to be too critical because I know she was sooo happy to win it and she seemed proud to win something that it was very cute to watch. I haven't been watching from day one, but I can tell she improved a lot. Alec deserves a LOT of credit too because I think without him the results may have been pretty different. John and Charlotte were good sports and they did their best too.

    Now on to a few of my (long) observations...

    1) When I first saw Kelly and Alec dance the samba and I didn't have a clue what the show was about, the first thing that popped into my head was "Wow Alec was really something" and as my dad and I watched future episodes, the pair seemed fun and entertaining because ALEC stood out (hey maybe it's cause I'm female ). Although we recognized Kelly, she just didn't seem to stand out as much as Alec did... And I suppose that is unfair to say because he is a professional and she is not, but I felt that all the others did something to break away from their professional partner, and Kelly did at times, just not as much as the others. Sometimes I think John and Charlotte seemed boring because they meshed together so well and John was able to stand out at times from Charlotte. I was a John fan, but I guess I feel it's because he was able to stand out more from Charlotte than Kelly was able to from Alec, so to me, that equalled a greater determination.

    Nevertheless, Kelly and Alec were very deserving, and IF (a big IF) the show was rigged, I hope she had no clue what was going on, because that would hurt her very much.

    2) One thing that is very hard when it comes to judges is the same thing that came to be known as a common criticism in the American Idol judges: inconsistency in what they want. I read many of the boring but technical vs casually fun and amateur standards vs professional standards in the thread and they are ALL good points... but I'm going to add a couple of my own anyway.
    I am glad to see I wasn't the only one dumbfounded at John and Charlotte's freestyle, my dad loved it, but I felt like they should have built on their elegant image that they had portrayed. HOWEVER, I'm not sure how I feel about awarding perfect 10s to a freestyle that allows you to bend the rules as much as you like.. seeing as there are no rules. In this case, I don't think the dance was being judged at all, and the scores the judges handed out at the end were mere novelty and an indication of how hard they think the contestants worked.
    I have heard that many have said those 10s were deserving because it was more entertaining and they are amateurs and we are casual viewers... that is true, and although we didn't vote on that dance, if that is what the viewer likes, fine. I don't have any gripes with the opinions I read here... what does make me rather annoyed is how inconsistent the judges were.

    If entertainment was so much more important than technicalities to the judges, then why were Joey and Ashly blasted so much last week by the judges on their open foxtrot EVEN THOUGH it was called a good entertaining "performance"? Yes, this is a freestyle... but it is STILL ballroom dancing. By these freestyle rules, you could do just about anything to please the judges with eye candy without it following any ruleset. The freestyle is ballroom dancing, but it seems like it got stretched to become "open ballroom dancing"...

    Because both performances were good... but I dunno, tricks belong on the skating rink, not a ballroom. Then again I know nothing about ballroom dancing! But remember, my main criticisms are nitpicking what the judges said, not y'all.

    If entertainment was going to be a bigger factor than technicality last night, it should have been like that the entire season. Unfair to just switch that up on a technically consistent duo.

    3) Unsure on the rigging issue.


    Wow that was a lot shorter in my head. I think the main point is that those freestyle dances were a novelty and were judged on a completely different rubric, which was unfair. Time to go eat!

    (Joey would have trounced Kelly in a freestyle )

  8. #218
    Gator Chompin' Ancient City's Avatar
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    I watched for the first time last night. Thought John and Charlotta won hands down. They looked as if they were having a great time, and appeared almost professional. Kelly and Alec had some awkward moments, not the least of which was the back walkover. I echo whoever said that the lifts were easier for the professional (Alec) to perform than the amateur John. I doubt I will watch this one in it's reincarnation.

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melsevene
    Well, I'm not Estella, but let me give this a shot -
    ABC is have a stellar year, something they haven't had in years. They want desperately to spread this good fortune to all other aspects of their programming - GMA, news, daytime - so once the show got rolling a little bit and they saw it was a hit, why not promote one of their own from daytime TV and let her be the Comeback Kid and take it all? Great publicity and maybe a few additional viewers to see Kelly in her daytime role?

    I don't begin to understand why TV execs do what they do, but rigging the outcome of a TV program is not unheard of and certainly has been done (somewhat successfully) in the past.

    What I do know is that I love to watch ballroom dancing and have watched a number of competitions on PBS, but I'm no expert. I did, however, see mistakes in just about all of Kelly's performances (and other stars too, I don't want to just single out Kelly). So if I can spot a mistake with my little knowledge of ballroom dancing, what was wrong with the judges last night? And yes, these are not professionals, but if there are blatant missteps, no one should be getting 10's.

    The judges and ABC blew this one. Big time.
    I agree with you completely regarding the performances. I've also watched dancing on PBS (and watch ice dancing and skating, which is somewhat relevant, I think). And for many years I subscribed to the NYC Ballet. So while I'm not an expert, I do have some idea of what I'm looking at.

    As far as the rigging goes, no, I don't think that they had a *guarantee* that she would win from the start, but the entire point structure was set up in a way that gave her a better chance than the other contestants: she's the only one with a current show, that show is on the same network, and they promoted the contest during that show. All of these things, plus the nature of the soap fanbase, would guarantee her a large audience vote. So they could be fairly certain that they could keep her going for a number of weeks, even if her dancing was scored lower by the judges.

    In addition to that, they gave her a partner who was the self-described "best looking man on the floor." And who was large enough to be able to do tricks with her without too much input from her. (Ever see the difference in what pairs skaters can do in the way of throws and lifts when the woman is tiny in comparison to the man?) Then, they gave her costumes that were briefer and briefer by the week. Stripping is nothing new to Kelly: she was a Playboy Playmate, for heaven's sake.

    It was just gravy to them that she actually worked hard and improved. Of course, that became part of the set up: the judges could keep complimenting her on improving to set the scene.

    When is got down to the final two, the judges obviously knew that if at all possible, their employers would like them to give it to Kelly and Alec. Which they did. If she had literally fallen on her face, they wouldn't have been able to get away with it, and ABC would have played the story differently for equally large publicity. (If it had been a tie after the audience vote, Len would have had to decide, and it is unlikely that he could have not picked John and Charlotte. The judges knew that. Therefore the three 10s.)

    And, to cap it all, she says she's going to Disneyland. Disney, the parent company! It was a win/win situation for ABC. Either plucky Kelly's heartbreak or plucky Kelly's win.

  10. #220
    FORT Fogey JonasGrumby's Avatar
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    I love John, but drats! I missed his dance. When I tuned in, it was the last dance by Kelly & Alec. Crap! I like watching John dance only because he is such a hoot! I always crack up with his style and his funny faces. He is quite a character. I think they were robbed.

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