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Thread: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

  1. #221
    FORT Fogey MsDiva2007's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    i don't buy she had no prior dance either. I have no problem with her winning. I just found over the whole season Zendaya was better over all. So who knows. People vote for odd reasons could be they felt she had better finger nails than Zendaya and that was reasoning. With the vagueness of the whole voting snafu we will never know if the outcome was correct anyhow.
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  2. #222
    FORT Fogey EnglishCadbury's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle David View Post
    Mel B made it to the Final 2 which, in and of itself, flies in the face of a conspiracy against black women.

    My point was to why Helio ultimately bested Mel for the trophy in the final vote. And, with respect, I disagree with your assessment of both contestants. I don't believe Helio was as bad as you profess, nor was Mel B as good. Each one had their strengths and weaknesses. I know at the time I thought they were fairly equal.
    I've already explained that 4 black women made the finals, under 30% of the black females who have participated, vs. 60% of the Asian participants and all Asians who have reached the finals have won. But seriously, look at the number of perfect scores Mel B received that season, and in the finals Helio still couldn't jive as his redemption dance. Nobody who has ever scored that low on a redemption dance in the finals has won. Also, nobody got a perfect on their Freestyle that season. Clearly popularity outstripped good dancing by more than just a little bit. I supported Helio that season, but looking back, it's difficult to justify that charisma should trump everything.
    Last edited by EnglishCadbury; 05-23-2013 at 03:17 AM.

  3. #223
    Magical Elf MFWalkoff's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    Nope. Which black women were cast? Versus which Asian women, and how many? Your statistics only make sense if all of the dancers within each demographic possessed equal skill & aptitude, equal mentoring skills of their pros, and equal distribution of wildcard factors like injury/illness on the way to reaching the finals. Not to mention equal degrees of difficulty of the dances they were each given. The reasons each made it as far as they did had to do with how they performed as individuals, who they had as partners, the luck of the draw with their given dances, and what fanbases they brought with them when they began their seasons compared to the fanbases of their castmates. Not to mention what happened in the world on any given week to distract people from casting votes, which is a decidedly recreational activity.

    As for popularity outshining good dancing by more than just a little...welcome to Dancing with the Stars. It happens several times a season to dancers of all genders, ethnicities and shoe sizes. Brandy didn't succumb to the clearly inferior Bristol because of race, but because of the ever-present politicially-motivated portion of Bristol's voting base, some of whom never watched a minute of the show but responded to pleas in Tea Party blogs all over the internet.

    To me, there are too many other circumstantial factors concerning the individual stars (and how their stars were aligned) that make any blind analysis by gender/race impossible. (I won't even get started on possible producer manipulation from week to week in the name of building good narratives; we will never truly know what has been in their hearts from year to year...)
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  4. #224
    FORT Fogey EnglishCadbury's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by MsDiva2007 View Post
    i don't buy she had no prior dance either. I have no problem with her winning. I just found over the whole season Zendaya was better over all. So who knows. People vote for odd reasons could be they felt she had better finger nails than Zendaya and that was reasoning. With the vagueness of the whole voting snafu we will never know if the outcome was correct anyhow.
    This. People vote for intangible reasons. I think there's a lot of baloney in Kellie's story- Nobody who can contort their body and produce dance lines like that hasn't had training. Kellie was "vague" about that. Early on she said she had a "few" dance classes, Dancing With the Stars 2013: Kellie Pickler Explains Why She Needs the "DWTS Spray Tan" (VIDEO) - Dancing With The Stars but the narrative changed at the end of the season to say she never danced at all. Kellie Pickler On Winning 'Dancing With The Stars: 'My Husband Cried!'
    It's like on Idol, she said she never ever sang before and then it turns out she won some singing contests before she got on the show. Idol watchers found out the truth in short order but #dwts either doesn't care or prefers to dangle a half truth because it gives people justification for voting for her and kicking the teenager to the curb for being upfront about her dance experience.
    I get that the "dramatic reveal" that the audience can get the feeling they discovered she could dance for the very first time, but it's a tall tale just to draw a distinction between the two competitors, and highly manipulative.
    Last edited by EnglishCadbury; 05-23-2013 at 04:20 AM.

  5. #225
    signed, sealed, delivered maude~flanders's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    Well, if we are going there, how many Indian women have won DWTS? NONE!!! Therefore, the DWTS people must be racist!

    I mean, come on!! Are we really going there? This is really just a simple case of sour grapes. I actually didn't even see Zendaya as an African American woman. She is a mixed race kid, but I wasn't even sure of her ethnicity until they showed her parents. And, seriously - who cares? She is just a normal 16 yr old American kid. She wasn't the victim of some sort of racially motivated conspiracy to make sure she couldn't win. Is this really what we are discussing?

    Kellie won, and Zendaya won second place. Zendaya was gracious in her placing, and I think she would hope her fans would be too. She exhibited grace and was too mature to claim that she didn't win because she was a "black woman". I doubt that would never in a million years cross her mind - just as it shouldn't. She did very well in this competition. Considering that she came in as a Disney kid, and with most people having no idea who she was, she did better than any of the others in the past. She should be applauded and enjoy how well she did. She has a bright future in front of her.

    Are we really going to take this thread to a debate on whether there is racism on dwts simply because one person is upset about Zendaya's loss?
    Last edited by maude~flanders; 05-23-2013 at 04:29 AM.

  6. #226
    FORT Fogey EnglishCadbury's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by maude~flanders View Post
    Well, if we are going there, how many Jewish women have won DWTS? NONE!!! Therefore, the DWTS people must be anti-semites!

    I mean, come on!! Are we really going there? This is really just a simple case of sour grapes. I actually didn't even see Zendaya as an African American woman. She is a mixed race kid, but I wasn't even sure of her ethnicity until they showed her parents. And, seriously - who cares? She is just a normal 16 yr old American kid. She wasn't the victim of some sort of racially motivated conspiracy to make sure she couldn't win. Is this really what we are discussing?

    Kellie won, and Zendaya won second place. Zendaya was gracious in her placing, and I think she would hope her fans would be too. She exhibited grace and was too mature to claim that she didn't win because she was a "black woman". I doubt that would never in a million years cross her mind - just as it shouldn't. She did very well in this competition. Considering that she came in as a Disney kid, and with most people having no idea who she was, she did better than any of the others in the past. She should be applauded and enjoy how well she did. She has a bright future in front of her.

    Are we really going to take this thread to a debate on whether there is racism on dwts simply because one person is upset about Zendaya's loss?
    Jewish women? There's been three, Brooke Burke, and Jennifer Grey won and Aly Raisman made the finals. Your point again?

  7. #227
    signed, sealed, delivered maude~flanders's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    Better? You get the point.

    But, now we are on to dissing Kellie.

    So, first it was the voting conspiracy, then the racism, now that Kellie was a secret ringer. What's next?

    She lost. Sorry, but she lost. Nothing will change that.
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  8. #228
    FORT Fogey EnglishCadbury's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by MFWalkoff View Post
    Nope. Which black women were cast? Versus which Asian women, and how many? Your statistics only make sense if all of the dancers within each demographic possessed equal skill & aptitude, equal mentoring skills of their pros, and equal distribution of wildcard factors like injury/illness on the way to reaching the finals. Not to mention equal degrees of difficulty of the dances they were each given. The reasons each made it as far as they did had to do with how they performed as individuals, who they had as partners, the luck of the draw with their given dances, and what fanbases they brought with them when they began their seasons compared to the fanbases of their castmates. Not to mention what happened in the world on any given week to distract people from casting votes, which is a decidedly recreational activity.

    As for popularity outshining good dancing by more than just a little...welcome to Dancing with the Stars. It happens several times a season to dancers of all genders, ethnicities and shoe sizes. Brandy didn't succumb to the clearly inferior Bristol because of race, but because of the ever-present politicially-motivated portion of Bristol's voting base, some of whom never watched a minute of the show but responded to pleas in Tea Party blogs all over the internet.

    To me, there are too many other circumstantial factors concerning the individual stars (and how their stars were aligned) that make any blind analysis by gender/race impossible. (I won't even get started on possible producer manipulation from week to week in the name of building good narratives; we will never truly know what has been in their hearts from year to year...)
    All right let's look real quick at great dancers:

    Which Asian Women Kristi Yamaguchi and Nicole Scherzinger
    Which Black Women Mel B, and Mya

    Who won and who lost? Kristi and Nicole were the uber-ringers of their seasons, but still managed to win.

    Then lets look at Asian women who missed the finals. - none they both won.
    Black women who missed the finals - Lil Kym and Brandy

  9. #229
    FORT Fogey ilja's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    Look, I ended up being one of Zendaya's biggest fans but I do not believe for a second that her loss had to do with the color of her skin. I can remember seeing shots of her parents and at different times I was surprised she had either a white or a black parent. I just did not see her color when I looked at Zendaya so I never thought of her as either black or white. I just thought she was adorable and could dance like there was no tomorrow. I loved her innocence in this day and age of promiscuity and loved how much respect Val showed toward her and how much she showed toward him.

    Apparently I was wrong about her level of support but that does not diminish her talent in any way, IMNSHO. She lost to a sweetheart who could also dance and who had Derek as a partner. So what! She still came in 2nd and did so well she has nothing to be ashamed of.

    I have this terrible habit of not blaming racism every time someone happens to be non-100% white and they do not get everything they wanted. As far as I know, no one gets everything they want every day. Well not counting me of course. Hmmmm, maybe that's why I think like I do. I'm not 100% anything . . . physically anyhow.
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  10. #230
    Live-Love-Laugh Fanny Mare's Avatar
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    Re: 5/21 DWTS 16 Finale Show **West Coast Spoilers**

    I have to say this, I never thought of Zendaya as a person of color- I honestly didn't. For me, it was all about her dancing .It wasn't until I saw her father that the penny dropped. When someone dances the way she does, its never about the color of ones skin.I think back to Sherri Shepherd, and at first she got on my nerves, but her pure joy of being on the show and dancing with Val, well she ended up making me smile . I think its a shame to turn this into a race issue, when it isn't. I think as Louis said said, Kellie was consistent all season, and the freestyle capped it.
    I don't care if Kellie has danced before, she has never danced like this. I don't care if she took ballet when she was 2 or 12, because this isn't ballet. I wasn't a Zendaya fan, I made that clear, I thought the show gave her false hope of winning it all- and she became a tad over confident, its not like we haven't seen that before( Sabrina).But that face, and those lovely long limbs, no wonder she has her on show. I suspect we will hear more about her in years to come.

    I am glad this season is over, as much as the pros need a break from this show- so do I.

    Thank you FORTers, its been funny posting with you, and fun cheering on our teams
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