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Thread: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #241
    FORT Fogey jadewarlock's Avatar
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by redsox girl View Post
    I didn't mean to say they are the best team, I have no idea who will give the best performance next week. If it's Mark and Chelsea then I'll vote for Mark and Chelsea, if It's Hines or Kirstie, I'll vote for one of them. That's what I meant by the best team.

    The judges are inconsistent in their methods and that to me is a bigger issue than Mark's personality flaws.

    for instance:

    Hines is good, but there's no way he deserved 60 points. So, I would say he benefited from the judges crazy, inconsistent paddle waving, as well. Just as Ralph clearly was a victim of their crazy, inconsistent paddle waving.
    I agree - at most he should've been tied with Chelsea and Mark IMHO. They both had enough mistakes that they were not perfect.

    Same token though, I think this week Hines would've been happy with say straight 1's - he was happier that his partner was not severely hurt or dancing.

    Chelsea has done a very good job and is certainly equal to Hines and Kirstie and therefore deserving of a spot in the finale. I would hate to see her lose should she and Mark give the best performance just because people don't like Mark.
    The problem I have here though is that IF Chelsea were such a good dancer - and I do mean her and not Mark dancing around her, WHY did they need to do the winner take all? I've never felt with any of the ringers - Nicole, Jennifer Grey, Kirstie Yamaguchi, etc. needed any help anyway in order to win their trophies.

    I also don't condone what is IMHO breaking the rules of dance and doing your own thing. If Mark and Chelsea had presented their cha-cha at a professional contest, they'd been last if not DQ'd for the stunts they pulled (swing/hip-hop). Yes, I understand this is NOT a real contest, but I feel that it should be treated more in line with a pro contest and have some standards. Rewarding flat out not doing a cha-cha with 15 points (more than they can get on a single paddle for a regular dance) to me is having no standards.

    I believe Chelsea and Hines are overall better dancers than Ralph-yes, he got screwed, but has he given consistently better performances than Hines and Chelsea? IMO, no.
    Another aspect of this show originally though was to take dancers and try to see who could be improved the most. Going by this, all but Chelsea in the final four were deserving of this title. Chelsea had the most experience than the others IMHO.

    And as someone mentioned - Ralph is 49, Kirstie is 60. Hines and Chelsea are younger - even if Hines was say in his 30s. That factors in as far as the "consistency."

    Kirsti has certainly shown herself to be a better dancer than most of the population, including those much younger than her. Watching Her and Maks dance has been a joy and their chemistry on the dance floor is palpable. But does she necessarily deserve to be in the final three. I don't know (and she's my favorite!)
    My opinion - yes. She gave consistent performances, even if a couple it was consistent malfunction/trip.

    A good argument could be made that Romeo or even Chris Jericho deserved a finale spot. But thems the breaks in a show that isn't an actual dance competioton.
    Chris I don't think so. Romeo was screwed by the Mark/Chelsea issue. People could argue Ralph, but as long as he was cleared to dance, I don't think it'd been right to have him drop out for Romeo to have a chance.

    I do think that Romeo and Chelsea were better too than Mark and the Disney Chelsea. It should've been a fun final four, without the C/M duo factoring in.

    I mean, when you have arbitrary, every changing rules from the judges and then rely on the public to vote `objectively', you aren't going to necessarily wind up with the best team crowned the winner.
    I concede this, but I would much rather have a dancer people LIKE winning. People do not like Mike and many do not know who Chelsea is or are like me feeling that she now feels entitled to the win. Guess the one concession I have here is that the other person I felt that acted this way and hadn't won yet was the year when Donny Osmond won.

    So, may the best team, despite the hodge podge of things which make up this show, win (whoever that turns out to be).
    If Mark and Chelsea do not break the rules again in what is a specific dance (as they do dance normally a redemption dance and free) and have an excellent free, then I'll agree with this. If he continues to break rules and they keep giving him kudos for it, I will feel the win is cheapened.

    I mean - If I were Mark I'd be embarrassed to know the only reason I'm in this season is because of a change in the game to have a winner take all game that is so unfair I'd say that anyone winning it - even my favorites (which out of the top five is all but Chelsea) won it.

  2. #242
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Just some thoughts On Kirsti Alley:

    Her drug use dates back to the early 1980s and she gave up drugs during that time period. It's not like she's a 60 year old meth addict. A lot of people have been addicts or had wild youths-but the past should be just that, the past.

    She says Scientology helped her break free of drugs. Is she hurting anyone by being a Scientologist? Is she ranting like Tom Cruise? No.

    To beat the long dead horse into the ground like a rug with hooves, Kirsti had retired from the spotlight only coming forward to discuss her weight and to defend herself after years of silence during which she was dragged through the mud by the rumor rags and various comedians- I believe a person who is being bullied and humiliated, especially in such a public way, has every right to come out swinging, to own the situation and to do whatever he or she sees fit in order to feel in control. If that means doing a self deprecating show called Fat Actress, then I say go for it. If Oprah is knocking on her door to `discuss' then why not? After all, everyone else is yapping about her weight, making money off of it, why shouldn't she? And for those people who do battle weight, who yo yo up and down and feel the sexist sting of a society that absolutely degrades overweight women, Kirsti serves as a sort of sounding board. I say God bless her and may she be happy.

    I have come to really like her prescence and her spirit and helya, she can dance, I don't mean `for an older person she can dance', I mean she dances so well she could dance circles around most people regardless of their age or size.
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  3. #243
    I have a new love now JunkieGirl's Avatar
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    This is not gonna be a popular opinion but it still has to be said. The show wants their finale to be exciting~~with great dances, thrills, chills and lots of lifts. Chelsea will provide that much better than Ralph and Kirstie, which is why they were given their final 3 spot. I don't believe that the judges are pushing for a win for those two but they wanted them in the finals. We shall see next week whether their win is guaranteed or not and that will be based on the freestyle, plus the judges-score-only dance. I believe the show would not mind a Hines win at all, as he would be a great ambassador for the show. If he can bring other football teams fans together for mass voting, even if it is to prevent a win for Mark Ballas, that says a lot about his personality and his dancing. Win/win for the show.

    Quote Originally Posted by karalott
    I'm guessing it'll be Corky. Maybe he'll drop Mark and break his mirrorball as he frantically looks for the nearest camera to smile into.
    OMG! LMAO The mental images I'm getting right now is cracking me up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tilden
    Does anyone actually believe Mark when he says it doesn't matter who wins because they're all a big family?
    You know what? I'm not so sure they are all a big happy family and I've never ever checked twitter to see who is following who. Until last night. I could swear that Chelsea was only following Jericho and Petra, but when I just checked she is now following Romeo, Kirstie, Maks, Ralph, and Mike Catherwood. Mark, Ralph, Maks and Hines are following no one in the cast other than their partners. Kirstie is only following Jericho. Has anyone ever checked their twitter in seasons past and found different results? That seems kinda weird to me. Especially when they all gush about how close they are.

    Someone mentioned up thread that most watch the women dance and I find that to be true in most cases for me. For some reason I pay more attention to the female dancers, whether pro or celebrity. And usually it's because of their costumes, the way the material flows or shakes or whatever. Except for Chelsea as I am more focused on Mark because he is so outrageous, frenetic and possibly possessed. He does take away from his partner which is too bad for Chelsea because she is a good dancer (from what little I do watch) and she deserves to be show-cased by her partner, not out danced or the focus being elsewhere.

    Gooooooooooooo Hines!

  4. #244
    *Until Next Season...* karalott's Avatar
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I don't know if I put a lot of stock into who follows who and whether that translates into whether all things are happy. It is interesting, since the majority of pros all seem to be friends (and it seems for most of them, they've been friends decades) that they all don't follow each other. I noticed Edyta dropped Karina after it came out she was posing in Playboy, but I don't know whether she ever added her back. Maks follows Edyta, but she doesn't follow him. I think the writing's on the wall for the pros. Maks is bittersweet about the cha cha challenge, but I think they all knew what it was designed for. Chelsea/Mark, makes me wonder if they read online and know what people are saying. It's the same script every season. And honestly, if it wasn't Mark, while the judges might not be fawning over a particular pro, they probably would still be doing the same thing to certain celebs. Mark didn't seem as hyper tonight, so either he was confident or he was watching himself. They pushed Romeo/Chelsie out of the semi's, and now Ralph/Karina out of the finals.

    What I don't get is how Mark gets away with it. The judges criticize his dancing (when they do) but still give him high scores, yet if they aren't 10s he complains. None of his bad behavior ever comes back to bite him in their eyes. He breaks the rules, yet nothing happens. Someone points their toe the wrong way and they get a point taken off. I noticed their was a little bit of an emphasis from some of the other couples tonight about doing proper ballroom routines. I wonder how it is outside of the show with Mark. Is there tension or talking with the others pros and what they think about him always getting away with it and being a producer pet who likely is already making room for the third trophy? It has to be frustrated to the rest of them. I have a feeling the producers may try and make it all as even as possible next week, especially if they get an earful about how rigged this week looked. I'm not ruling a Mark win out, but I think they won't try and make it obvious the first night at least. The second night, when the judges are the ones to give the final scores, then yeah, they might. They'll know exactly where everyone stands and whether they can make up the difference with their scores. Mark and Chelsea may be excited and pretend to act surprised when they get announced as the winner, but it'll be a predictable end, and one I'll feel they didn't deserve.

  5. #245
    Wild thang Rattus's Avatar
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by jadewarlock View Post
    Being from the era of Kirstie and Florence, I have to say as far as "stars" they are relatively equal. The only difference is that Kirstie was the original Saavik in "Star Trek" (Wrath of Khan) while I cannot recall if Florence has been in a big movie.
    Florence played the sad, alcoholic clown groupie in Shakes the Clown. Does that help?
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  6. #246
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    I am just upset that M/C is in the finale. I was watching BL and was upset my fav wasn't automatically in the finale and now Ralph isn't in the finales for DWTS. I was bummed last night!!!!!

    I'm not sure who to vote for next week....Hines or Kirstie....I want Maks to win but not sure they have enough fans to pull off the win. I just don't want M/C to win!!!!
    "Where you are today is where your mind put you. Where you'll be tomorrow is where your mind puts you." Billy Banks

  7. #247
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat View Post
    The winner take all nonsense pretty much confirmed that Chelsea's fan base was considerably smaller than Kirstie's, Hines' and Ralph's, or it wouldn't have been necessary in the first place. I say considerably because she needed a 25 point advantage over Ralph to cancel out his fan votes! I don't doubt that part of the fix to get Chelsea to the finals was calculating how many extra points she needed to bring her up to the other 3 and the magic number turned out to be 15; if she had been getting more votes, it might have been 5 or 10.

    I really don't see the majority of Ralph voters going to Chelsea now. I suspect that all that switching one's Kirstie votes to Hines is going to end up doing is guaranteeing that Mark gets second place instead of third (which if the show doesn't intervene, is a distinct possibility). And I would love to see Mark's face if he gets bumped at third.

    There is no reason for the show not to support a Hines win (in fact, I think they'd like a male winner after 2 female winners in a row), so I don't think they will purposely try to manipulate him out of it for Mark's sake. They just badly wanted Mark (and Chelsea) in the finals for some reason.
    Agreed! That was all done to make sure that Mark and Chelsea got into the finals because their fanbase isn't big enough otherwise.

    Notice that Tom said, "Not necessarily the bottom 2" which means that Kirstie was not in the bottom 2. Therefore, Mark and Chelsea were. You know it wasn't Hines!
    Even with the extra 15 bonus points, Mark and Chelsea barely scraped through.


    That is the strategy behind the instant cha-cha for 15 points, and Tom's repeat talk about getting someone who needs it through followed by the talk about Brandi not making it last season.
    He was alluding to "the better dancer Chelsea" not making it over someone else. (The judges decided that someone else would be Ralph by their judges' scores).
    They knew Chelsea would technically win over everybody else in a dance-off, so they could legally give her 15 extra points.

    The middle-aged woman in me applauds Kirstie. She has done fantastically well. But realistically, I know that the judges are not going to let her get further than F3.
    Here is where they can begin to control what happens. This will be the end of the line for Kirstie.

    The strategy was to get Chelsea into the F2 against Hines. She may be the best dancer, but at that point, the judges may back off. Other better dancers have not won.

    Hines and Chelsea are both non-dancers, and Hines is the most popular. I think the judges wanted an F2 face-off between the best 2 dancers, and they will let the fans vote the winner from there on out.

    Hines as the popular vote takes it, obviously, in a backlash against Mark and because Hines is so charismatic and likeable.

    That is the way I am trying as objectively as possible to see it.
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  8. #248
    FORT Fogey Tobi's Avatar
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Saw Ralph and Karina on GMA, they were showing some of his past dances, he was really very good. He was better than Hines/Kirstie IMO because he could do such great turns and his footwork was great and also just a great performer. He was really dancing and doing a lot of difficult moves and not just tagging along. What was their problem with him? Those scores for his final dance were just disgusting, a 7? Come on... I know this is just a show but it irritates me, it's one thing to give them a little less but a 7 really? Geez, maybe nice people really do finish last....at least in this world. BTW, I like Hines/Kirstie, I just thought Ralph was doing more in his dances and getting nothing in return for it from the judges whereas the others could do less and get 10's. I'm not really rooting for anyone in the final...yawn, so predictable.

  9. #249
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Rattus View Post
    Florence played the sad, alcoholic clown groupie in Shakes the Clown. Does that help?

    Florence was also the female lead in the musical Song of Norway, based on the life of Edvard Grieg back in the seventies.

  10. #250
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    Re: 5/17 "Greatest Dances"/Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by northernviewer View Post
    Well, no surprises tonight... darn! Chelsea and Mark thanking their fans was kinda funny as they could have actually named all of them - Carrie Ann, Len and Bruno I so want them gone next week!!!!!!

    I'll be giving all my votes to Kirstie next week, even though I'm a huge fan of Hines. I know lots have said that they think Hines has the bigger fan base, but I think Kirstie has. She's the biggest star they've ever had on the show (I'm not talking size ) and she has the backing of John Travolta, his wife Kelly Preston, Oprah and several other high profile stars. I also think that the majority of Ralph's fans will switch to Kirstie. I truly believe that she's the one to beat fan wise. Hines is a great guy and a wonderful dancer, but Kirstie is the one to overcome a lot of odds to make it to the finals and is more likely to get the votes of the average viewer. JMHO of course, but I'm sticking with Kirstie to the end.
    I agree about Kirstie's fanbase. Everybody watches TV and goes to the movies. Most people know who she is, and she has a compelling story. You're right that she's probably getting the average viewer's votes. Hines has a large fanbase also, but if you're not a football fan you probably haven't heard of him before this show. His dancing has improved, but it isn't all it's hyped to be. If the F3 finished finale night with across the board even scores from the judges, I think Kirstie would win on fan votes. But if the show wants her to be F3, as so many here think, the judges will lowball her scores to compensate for her fanbase, just like they did with Ralph.

    I'm with you, rooting for Kirstie all the way. She's exactly what this show is all about, and Kirstie and Maks make me smile when they dance. What else is there?
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