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Thread: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

  1. #181
    FORT Fogey princess07's Avatar
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Flori da;3753057;
    I, too, think something went wrong with Melissa's dance. Was it just my eyes, or did the bottom of her feet looked dirty? Anyway, very awkward, and hardly worth mentioning she'd be dancing for all the longer it lasted.

    I also thought Derek and Joanna knew ahead of time by their reactions. Still disappointed when the moment came, I imagine.

    I'm also beginning to think this show is as staged as TB. It's also my opinion that Mya shouldn't be in the finals with her prior dancing experience. What do we want to see next...a whole cast of experienced dancers compete against each other? I'd much rather see contestants with little or no dancing experience compete and watch them improve each week.
    Then you need to add Donny to the prior dancing experience category as well. The man's been dancing all his life.

  2. #182
    FORT Fan Peacheater's Avatar
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by tmansback;3753321;
    Based on what. Your definition. Forgetting the weight st from DWTS. Kelly has spent most of her time in the spot light fighting weight issues. She definitely appeals to someone. Not that I dislike Kelly. She seems like a very nice girl. If we can somehow come to some kind of conclusion that Mya is getting the African American vote. I'm just wondering why not say the same about Kelly. You think Kelly had a bigger fan base going into DWTS than Mya.

    Again sdl i just think that is ridiculous. Just because you watch the show doesn't mean your voting. I don't think African Americans are more aggressively voting for Mya. I'm African American. If all the people on the show that would have people block voting for them it wouldn't be Mya.
    I'd never put "sdl" and "ridiculous" in the same sentence. His insight into the ABC corporate view in LA, from behind the producers shoulders, is spot-on with what I've heard from a source I've discussed before from inside corporate ABC-NY and another who has been a frequent backstage guest this season. Block voting does not happen every season, but it has been a recognized factor this season. In fact, it has been the elephant in the corner this season, joked about privately by many of the pros. He beat my by a day with his insider info about Joanna's departure. My own info arrived a day later Joanna invited her closest friends on Wednesday morning, LA time. I now know that Derek knew before Joanna did.

    As someone who does not vote, I don't take a position on whether or not block voting appeals from ethnically oriented websites supporting Mya or the Polish Film Society's push for members to support Joanna is morally upstanding. Equally, it does not surprise me when some critics suggest the fault is with contemporary American culture and not with the show's premise or process.

    Going forward, I no more have a favorite now than in week one. There are clean non-ballroom reasons to dislike all three and clear reasons to favor each one. What I can get past, as a dance professional, is that Mya would allow herself to be used in this process. While I can't know her motivation, I can question her professional integrity. No one else is in her league or could have been without years of hitting the boards. She must know this, and be able to accept living with the certain knowledge that she would always be the best dancer, with better credentials than some of the DWTS pros.

  3. #183
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by sdl;3753286;
    *********
    I have a good friend at the network. After several seasons, I don't think that's a big secret anymore.
    Sometimes he/she ("they") calls me to bitch about their job. Sometimes they tell me who is going home that night. Sometimes I call them because my kids are making me crazy and I want to talk. We are friends.
    But the most interesting conversations are when they tell me about the business that goes on behind the scenes. Like when Melissa R. didn't want to do the ATFR show, and they had to negotiate it to get her there. Or the business reason for bringing in 16 couples this year. Or the dollar value of each point this show slips in the ratings. Or who is a pain in the rear behind the scenes. I love these conversations because they take me away from my everyday stress.
    My friend told me it was Donny, Mya and Kelly well before the vote or even the performances. They explained the logic, which I posted a couple of days ago, and sent me a detailed demographic breakdown on this show's viewers to demonstrate what they were saying.
    I'm not saying that the show is rigged, but they sure know who their audience is and cater to them. It's just good business.

    SDL--thanks for the "backstory."

    I had a feeling it was something along those lines.

    Keep the good info coming whenever you can. It really adds a lot more depth to the entire experience.

  4. #184
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by sdl;3753286;
    *********
    I have a good friend at the network. After several seasons, I don't think that's a big secret anymore.
    Sometimes he/she ("they") calls me to bitch about their job. Sometimes they tell me who is going home that night. Sometimes I call them because my kids are making me crazy and I want to talk. We are friends.
    But the most interesting conversations are when they tell me about the business that goes on behind the scenes. Like when Melissa R. didn't want to do the ATFR show, and they had to negotiate it to get her there. Or the business reason for bringing in 16 couples this year. Or the dollar value of each point this show slips in the ratings. Or who is a pain in the rear behind the scenes. I love these conversations because they take me away from my everyday stress.
    My friend told me it was Donny, Mya and Kelly well before the vote or even the performances. They explained the logic, which I posted a couple of days ago, and sent me a detailed demographic breakdown on this show's viewers to demonstrate what they were saying.
    I'm not saying that the show is rigged, but they sure know who their audience is and cater to them. It's just good business.
    One of the show's executives, Sr. Talent Producer Deena Katz, explained in an interview that every contestant brought in a certain number of viewers, who the show then hoped would find other contestants appealing and stick around even if their favorite was voted off, and I see how it made economic sense to increase the number of contestants. But it has resulted in chaos, according to Tom Bergeron and others. We'll see if they do it again.

    Conrad Green talked about 'mixing things up' in the middle of the season, and I worried they were going to break up the couples and assign them different partners. I hope they don't do that.

    I understand why your friend was able to predict the finalists, even prior to the performances. It's easy to show that a big fan base can be nearly impossible to overcome

    For instance, based on each contestant's share of the total vote last week on VN1, I calculated that even if Joanna had straight 10's on all three dances, Mya could have had almost straight 4's, and Donny straight 5's, and Joanna would STILL have gone home!

    In that scenario, however, Kelly would have had to get very good scores herself. Her point advantage over Joanna on VN1 wasn't that great. In fact, most weeks Joanna had a bigger share of the VN1 vote than Kelly; Kelly's good performances and her personality gave her the voting edge this week. But then VN1 is just a guide and the show knows the real numbers, so if they thought Kelly was a shoo-in I won't argue with that.

    Here is the hypothetical breakdown, using VN1's final numbers for the respective shares of viewer votes, showing that Mya and Donny would have been safe even with ridiculously low judges' scores, and that Joanna could not have overtaken Donny even with perfect 30s for all three dances:

    If Mya had gotten only 29 points out of 90 - all 3's and one 4 - she would still be safe: [9+9+10] 29/247 = 11.74% + 38.31% viewer vote = 50.05%

    If Donny had gotten only 45 points out of 90 - all 5's - he would still be safe: [15+15+15] 45/247 = 18.218% + 31.85% viewer vote = 50.068%

    Kelly needed far more points than either Mya or Donny to be safe: [27+28+28] 83/247 = 33.603% + 16.07% viewer vote = 49.673%

    But even perfect 30s on all 3 dances could not have saved Joanna: [30+30+30] 90/247 = 36.437% + 13.1% viewer vote = 49.539%

    Of course, if Mya or Donny really performed that poorly they would lose votes from many supporters.

    Any guesses who will get the lion's share of votes from former Joanna and Derek supporters?

  5. #185
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    CatherineAG--hi.

    You say in part--

    "One of the show's executives, Sr. Talent Producer Deena Katz, explained in an interview that every contestant brought in a certain number of viewers, who the show then hoped would find other contestants appealing and stick around even if their favorite was voted off, and I see how it made economic sense to increase the number of contestants. But it has resulted in chaos, according to Tom Bergeron and others."


    I had not heard this. Do you know where Tom said this and what kind of chaotic situation(s) he was referring to?

    Thanks for additional info.

  6. #186
    FORT Fogey ironcat's Avatar
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Rattus;3753348;
    *ahem* Mya is a pro dancer. She dances (and sings, sort of) for a living. That is what people are objecting to. Let's say that next season Julianne Hough came back as a competitor (she's a singer, ya know), and partnered up with, say, Mark Ballas. I think that the audience would be outraged*, and rightfully so. And so goes the feeling for Mya.
    Plus, while she's proficient in her dance, she is not at all interesting to watch. And her singing? Yikes!

    *With one exception - you know who you are .
    While I agree that Mya certainly went into this competition with a very large advantage over all the other celebs as far as dancing ability goes, I wish people would refrain from using a pro ballroom dancer like Julianne as a comparison, to illustrate their point. Mya has never been a pro ballroom dancer. Compare her to Michael Jackson or Paula Abdul please.

  7. #187
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Wind Dancer;3753389;
    But it has resulted in chaos, according to Tom Bergeron and others."

    I had not heard this. Do you know where Tom said this and what kind of chaotic situation(s) he was referring to?

    Thanks for additional info.
    Let's see. I don't recall offhand but I'll see what I can find for you. He was talking candidly and explained that it was a mess because there were so many people the contestants couldn't bond with one another, and the double eliminations were so unnerving to everyone. He doubted they'd do it again.

    I believe it was a print interview rather than on video, and maybe two weeks ago? I'll try to find it again.

    Edited: Here is one of the interviews I was referring to. It's not the only one since he doesn't mention the bonding problem here and I know he did. It's halfway down the page.

    'Dancing With the Stars' Results Show Elimination October 27 - Dancing with the Stars - AOL Television

    "Tom Bergeron, what do you think of the double elimination tonight?
    Tom: I think, in all honesty, we learned that you can't have 16 couples to start a season. We came out of the gate learning some things that I hope you'll never see again. Having said that, though, I like the way this season is picking up. I think people are coming back. [Viewers] may have thought, "We don't know who to support here because the body count is so high."
    Last edited by CatherineAG; 11-19-2009 at 11:00 AM.

  8. #188
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by ironcat;3753393;
    While I agree that Mya certainly went into this competition with a very large advantage over all the other celebs as far as dancing ability goes, I wish people would refrain from using a pro ballroom dancer like Julianne as a comparison, to illustrate their point. Mya has never been a pro ballroom dancer. Compare her to Michael Jackson or Paula Abdul please.
    How about if I compare her to Carrie Anne? Any complaint? (although Carrie Anne has never given a solo dance performance the Kennedy Center, a bell weather measurement for achievement in American culture). To be factual (and arguably fair), Mya has far more professional dance experience than does Anna, Michale's partner. As I've noted earlier, just last year she competed in the amateur division of the renowned ballroom competition in Blackpool, UK. She came in 41st as an amateur.

  9. #189
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Wind Dancer, here are two more articles quoting Derek about 16 couples being a bad idea:

    "But seriously, longtime pro dancer Derek said he loved some of the changes on DWTS this season, including the competition group mambo, but he candidly admitted starting with 16 couples was a “terrible idea.”
    “Nobody wants to see that many couples dance! I’m sure that won’t be repeated [but] I could be wrong.”

    Joanna Krupa Steps Off ‘Dancing With The Stars’ - OK! Magazine - The First for Celebrity News

    "What did you think about having 16 couples?
    Derek: "I thought that was terrible. Nobody wants to see that many couples. Honestly, it's discouraging. It's like sitting in church for three hours. You go to church, you want to go for an hour."

    'Dancing With the Stars' Results November 17 - Dancing with the Stars - AOL Television

  10. #190
    FORT Fogey ironcat's Avatar
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    Re: 11/17 Results Show Discussion **Spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Peacheater;3753407;
    How about if I compare her to Carrie Anne? Any complaint? (although Carrie Anne has never given a solo dance performance the Kennedy Center, a bell weather measurement for achievement in American culture). To be factual (and arguably fair), Mya has far more professional dance experience than does Anna, Michale's partner. As I've noted earlier, just last year she competed in the amateur division of the renowned ballroom competition in Blackpool, UK. She came in 41st as an amateur.
    No complaint, and I agree that she is probably a better dancer than Carrie Anne ever was. I personally am less outraged than many here about Mya's inclusion on the show (I am kind of apathetic about the whole season), but I just think it dilutes the credibility of the argument to compare her to a ballroom dancer, even a less accomplished one. You certainly know better than I do, but I am under the impression that the disciplines are quite different, although being skilled in one will certainly give you a big advantage in learning another one. It was just a small nitpick. I'm sorry that you seem to have taken offense.

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