11/14 DWTS13 Show Discussion *West Coast Spoilers*

[jucamer]

Maks tweeted that to Carrie Ann that he was sorry for smiling.

- I so love that man!

[zookeepertx]

And, am I wrong, but haven't Derek and Ricki gone through the entire competition so far and never once had to dance first - or even second? It seems like they have always been at or near the end. The order in which each dancer has performed this season has also looked suspicious to me.

No, you're not wrong. I'm 99 percent sure they have danced either last or next to last every single week! That's another thing that's infuriated me all season! And, I'm almost as sure that Hope & Maks have gone first or second every week!

I'm almost done with this show & it stinks, because I SO enjoy Tom's quick responses & ad libs!

[XenasMom]

Haven't posted here in a long time, but I too am really disgusted this season. I had been taping "The Sing-Off" (which airs at the same time) so that I could vote on DWTS, but for the last few weeks I've taped DWTS instead so I can fast forward through the DWTS judges' comments, which are so predictable and have begun to make my skin crawl. The producers of DWTS should look at the judging on "The Sing-Off." Ben Folds, Sara Bareilles, and Shawn Stockman are always constructive and kind, even when they are pointing out problems with a group's performance, and the feeling of the show is so different because of that. DWTS helped distract me during a really terrible time in my life, after my daughter was killed, but I've realized this season that it just isn't as much fun and I don't know if I want to give it my time any more.

[jucamer]

Do you think his mood tonight had anything to do with his knowlege that JR couldn't perform full-out? i.e. he could foresee a window through which he and Hope might squeak into the finale, and it made him giddy...? Not to say he was taking delight in someone else's misfortune. I'm just saying he wears his emotions on his sleeve, and he was certainly in a good mood going into tonight's performance, and it may have been because he saw a chance to advance.

No not at all - Maks and JR are friends that is just wrong

[karalott]

Oh my gosh, did Tony really give Carrie Ann a book about ballroom basics? If so, when did he do that? That is so funny. No wonder Tony and Maks are such good friends.

I am wondering if there has ever been a season where one of the F4 is scored that much lower than the other three? And, if so, who was that person? I can't remember what each of them had prior to the dance-off at the end (except that Hope and Max were at the bottom with 45), but that pretty much sealed the deal. There is no way that Hope and Maks can make up that much of a difference.

And, am I wrong, but haven't Derek and Ricki gone through the entire competition so far and never once had to dance first - or even second? It seems like they have always been at or near the end. The order in which each dancer has performed this season has also looked suspicious to me. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems like in the past that they rotated the dancers so that they would move up each week - example: if someone danced first in week one, they would go second the next week, and the one who danced last would then go first the following week.

I did not hear JR say the F-word. Was it audible, or could you just read his lips? I personally think that he was disappointed in himself - not only did he feel like his performance was not as good as he wanted it to be - but he also aggravated the injury to his ankle, knowing that he had two more dances to perform. I think that he said it best: he was disappointed that he got injured at this point in the competition because of all the work that he and Karina have put into it. An injury at this point could certainly affect the outcome, and JR knows that.

It looks like Carrie Ann is well aware that a huge number of fans are calling for her to be fired. She seems to be extremely thin skinned and is just looking for Maks to make any kind of facial expression or whatever so she can call him out on it. Last night was ridiculous, and she is rightfully getting slammed for what she said. I will watch tonight's show just to see how Hope and Maks handle things when they are eliminated, and then I will tune in to Jimmy Kimmel's show to see what they have to say.

I hope that JR can somehow pull this out and win it, but I will not be watching next week. I can not stand to watch anymore of Carrie Ann, so I will just be reading what everyone here has to say and will be cheering for JR. And if things don't change and Carrie Ann is back in the spring, I might have to skip it then too. Maybe if enough people just don't tune in next week and the ratings drop significantly, then they will get the message at DWTS. Something needs to change. I say start by getting rid of Carrie Ann.

Back during season 5, when CA first become the authority figure on lifts (crazy enough, they happened in previous seasons and she never said a word), and called out Jane/Tony, Tony jokingly gave her a book about ballroom rules and technique. I heard it was a joke but was never sure if CA was amused or not. I'm guessing not, as after that she seemed to hold a grudge against Tony. I know it has to be hard for CA taking all the flack, especially since Bruno and Len don't have twitter and don't have any direct way to communicate with fans (given that they also judge Strictly, I'd say that's smart ). But of all 3 judges, she always seems to take the most offense when she starts getting booed by the audience or gets called out for her comments. I wish a talk show host would have her on and confront her and say how obvious the show has gotten, between this semi finals and last seasons semis. Maybe that's why Karina reached for Maks's hand, she remembers what it was like for her and Ralph last time. I think the show could improve just be sacking Brooke and CA. Or bringing in a judge that'll be a challenge to CA and put her in her place. I still don't get why those 3 act and are treated as though they are the holy ones. It's a freaking cheesy dance show that isn't supposed to be a dance show (why do we have judges and scores again?) and CA has no ballroom creditentials at all. She managed last night to seem happy and interested with every couple, except Hope/Maks. If this is Maks's last season, I'm glad he's said what he's said and ruffled the feathers, because no other pro will have the backbone to do it. Gotta make the judges happy and stay on their good side, otherwise they might not give an undeserved 10.

Hope and Max have gotten very lucky to have made it this far. It was due to popularity.
I agree, the first weeks were painful, but people just voted for Maks, no matter that she was so bad. Chynna was better than her, but we lost her.This whole sulky Maks and Hope saga has spoilt the show in some ways.Now they are all over each other pretending like the first weeks never happened, make me LOL and

It's not like Hope is the only one benefitting from her pros fanbase-except in certain celebs cases, they also get a pass from the judges. Since one particular judge isn't fond of Maks, that's a strike against Hope already.

RE: Rob. I'd agree if he had a normal family, but his family has a million dollar empire, so maybe the editing of him slacking off and playing video games is just that. Of course, I guess that'd be like any other overly rich kid, college degree or not. Didn't Bruce Jenner have another reality show with his 2 sons about how spoiled they were? It's been a long time since I've actually watched anything Kardashian, so maybe he's actually doing his own thing with the Kardashian brand. Or maybe Mama Kris only wants that reserved for the girls and Rob will go back to being an outcast once DWTS is over. I know what it's like being compared to your family, but even if Rob's last name wasn't Kardashian, I still wouldn't be rooting for him. I just hope he's the last we see of that family. And PA Snow Bunny: I love that-Karrie Kardashian

[Tilden]

I was not aware they had changed figure-skating scoring systems this season. However, in years past I've very clearly heard figure-skating commentators announce when a competitor has removed a certain skill to achieve a cleaner program, thus higher score (meaning, higher vs falling in a more complicated one). That's why I used that as an example of why some dancers may be inclined to do that, too. Remember, the dancers know they're being judged by the public, of whom the majority are like me and can't always assess whose program had more difficulty (unless the judges announce it). The pros, recognizing that difficult steps may make the celebrity look bad while easier steps make the celebrity look impressive to the public, may choose to choreograph something the dancer can successfully achieve. It does happen, and will continue to happen now-and-then because it pays off. (in many sports)

When it stops paying off, competitors will quit taking the easy road.

It's like taking the SATs... if you don't know an answer, do you choose one anyway, knowing you lose points for wrong answers? Or do you leave it blank, knowing you won't gain but won't lose? Depends on whether or not you can eliminate one of the choices. You assess whether to take the safe route or the gamble.

And keep in mind, the celebs are not really elite competitors in any sense of the word, even though their partners are. The pro may remove difficult steps to benefit his partner.

Actually, the CoP, though adjusted for this season, has been in place since shortly after the judging scandal in 2002. And, at first, it did reward falling on quads. Then it was revised not to do so and then, following the 2010 Olympics, it went back to the idea of fully rotated, but unsuccessfully landed quads, still being worth the points. In actuality, the rules have pretty much been adjusted every year in one way or another and the commentators, unfortunately, aren't always making that clear. I've been watching figure skating coverage since childhood and much more closely since roughly the early nineties. You can skate clean all you want, but if you don't have triples, if you don't have combinations, if you don't have higher level spins and footworks, if you don't have the quad or at least try it (if your'e a guy), if your jumps aren't fully rotated, if your choreography/musicality isn't there etc., somebody's going to have to make a mistake in order for you to win and/or make the podium. You also better not front load a program, because you're going to get more points for placing difficult jumps after the halfway point.

And yes, obviously, the celebrities on DWTS aren't elite dancers, and that's why it's not appropriate to compare what they do to the choreographic choices made for and by elite figure skaters. Being simple and clean doesn't work there at all. It really shouldn't work, IMO, on DWTS either, and you don't have to have an extensive knowledge of dancing to notice which pros are choreographing easier routines for their stars and dancing around them. All you have to do is look at their feet--if the star isn't moving nearly so much as his/her partner, there's a problem. If people watching don't care and just want to vote for whomever for whatever reason, that's their right--but the judges really should notice and they shouldn't reward someone who isn't keeping up with his/her partner in comparison to those who are. And they should care about whether the choreography is clearly simpler for some stars than for others, because if the star is capable of carrying it off, then he/she is likely the better dancer and are more deserving of those tens. Some dancers/pros shouldn't feel obligated to work their stars harder in order to get a nine or a ten either, though they obviously do. That ten CA gave Rob for his samba was a complete gift in comparison to what others have had to do to get tens and nines, not only this season but in prior seasons. Likewise, Chaz and Nancy were often over scored for completing much less complex routines, because that's all they were capable of doing. Carson, however, was not similarly rewarded--and I'm not saying he should have been. They should all be held to the same standard, just as someone taking an ACT or SAT or a fourth grade math test are.

Also, in exactly what sports does it pay off to do simpler things? It definitely doesn't necessarily pay off in gymnastics or figure skating. In diving, it also matters what the base score for the dive is. I'm assuming you're only referring to judged sports, as it surely isn't a better idea to clear a high jump more beautifully at a lower height, for instance.

[BreeBrit]

If you really want to see who can and can't dance, mute your TV when each couple performs. Makes you want to count right along with them 1 2 3 and step 2 3 slide and turn......etc.

[mushybrain]

DWTS helped distract me during a really terrible time in my life, after my daughter was killed, but I've realized this season that it just isn't as much fun and I don't know if I want to give it my time any more.

Hi XenasMom. I am so sorry to hear about your daughter. I hope you have a loving support system and that the passage of time will allow you to take comfort in your memories. I wish you peace.

[fireflyer]

Also, in exactly what sports does it pay off to do simpler things? It definitely doesn't necessarily pay off in gymnastics or figure skating. In diving, it also matters what the base score for the dive is. I'm assuming you're only referring to judged sports, as it surely isn't a better idea to clear a high jump more beautifully at a lower height, for instance.

It CAN pay off in both gymnastics and figure-skating, also team sports which have plays to choose from, also DWTS, etc. I'm comfortable with the analogies I provided. I think people got my drift.

[DancingDad]

It CAN pay off in both gymnastics and figure-skating, also team sports which have plays to choose from, also DWTS, etc. I'm comfortable with the analogies I provided. I think people got my drift.

It only pays off if your competitors are not able to complete the more difficult elements.