Ian Ziering & Cheryl Burke - Season 4

[Nemeses]

I thought Ian was a gentleman to Cheryl last night right up until the end when Samantha was giving the phone number. Ian rubbed her shoulders a bit and I didnt think Cheryl liked that too much, but they were great on the dance floor. ...

Yes, the professional in Cheryl really comes out, the minute she hits the dance floor with her partner, she' ON, no matter who she's with. It's one of the things I love about her And I agree with you, I could see that Cheryl didn't like the rubbing.

Last year there was some speculation about things between Cheryl and Emmett - that there was more going on between them than just dance partners. Perhaps that word got to Cheryl and she wants to appear cool and professional with Ian

I never heard any speculation about Cheryl and Emmitt whatsoever, and as much as I dig around for behind-the-scenes stories about the DWtS teams, I'd have seen that. Certainly there was none here at FoRT. It there was any at the other 'boards' where they make up stuff just for the heck of, that might explain anything you may have heard. But Cheryl and Emmitt were never involved in that type of speculation, from the beginning people spoke about the "little sis/big brother" relationship.

I really just think people tend to always think something romantic is going on when you have an attractive male and attractive female, doing some of the intimate dances these people do.

There could be some truth to that in some circumstances. But since I think Ian is one ugly creepy rodent-looking guy, he doesn't come near falling into the 'attractive male' arena for me. But in general, though that could happen, that's something that's thankfully not been a problem of speculation here at FoRT over the 4 seasons of DWtS.

I think if anyone's sensing any hesitation or aloofness from Cheryl (I'm not personally seeing it) it's because she probably wants to make certain the producers don't even think about placing her in that crap this season since for the first time she has a partner that's not married and yeah Ian's old enough to be her father but the reality is he doesn't look it because for some reason guy seems to have discovered the fountain of youth; he just doesn't seem to be aging.

You're giving Cheryl way too little credit and giving her a big role in a drama I seriously doubt she'd be involved in. If there's one thing that best sums up Cheryl Burke on DWtS, it's the word 'professionalism'. She has always enjoyed the mini-interviews and after-dance patter, and in the background when the cameras are concentrating on someone else, you could see her having an easy friendly banter or relationship with her partner. Not so this year. I doubt if Cheryl would even have given a thought to such an intricate game such as the one you envision above. As for Ian's not seeming to age? Ick, he looks every bit of his 43ish years and then some, to me. He looks like a sleezy red-eyed rodent.

There was absolutely nothing inappropriate about Ian's rubbing Cheryl's shoulders and I saw no negative reaction from her because of it. Many times when Drew would wrap his entire arms around Cheryl she'd smile but not neccessarily respond. There was far more intimate closeness between Drew and Cheryl than with any of her partners and there was nothing going on...as I don't think there's anything going on now.

The appropriateness comes from the person it's done too, not from who does it. If Cheryl doesn't like the guy, or has asked him not to do that, or for whatever reason she doesn't like Ian rubbing her arms and shoulders up and down like he does, then it's inappropriate. This isn't an all things being equal situation, because the touch of another person does indeed feel welcome or not depending on whether you like the person doing the touching. She liked Drew. She liked Emmitt. She's said that she felt comfortable around them and their families that she could be playful like a sister or friend without Drew or Emmitt or their wifes/families thinking she was flirting or anything. But if she doesn't like Ian, and doesn't feel comfortable being touchy-feely with him, then he needs to stop assuming it's ok to rub her like that. And by the way, the way Ian rubs her arms and shoulders up and down like that is more of a sexual/flirty contact unless it's your dad doing it. Also, there are certain ways to touch or rub a woman's arms/shoulders that feels just 'friendly/we did a great job' and other ways where it's just plain creepy and/or too intimate for what the woman feels is appropriate for them. And Cheryl's been giving off every signal there is that she doesn't like him doing that. It gets clearer each week, in fact. She stiffens perceptibly, and has now begun to walk from the judge's dais to the backstage without waiting for Ian. Her body language is loud and clear.

And it's unfortunate. I love Cheryl, and one of the highlights of the past 2 seasons had always been knowing when Cheryl and her partner came out to dance, I'd be smiling and sharing the happy feelings they brought, and seeing the sparkle in Cheryl's eyes. But this season, I actually feel bad when she's on. Her dancing is terrific as always, but now in the after-dance interviews and background shots, there seems to be no sparkle from her. In the interviews themselves, she will sometimes -- sometimes, not always, as she used to -- smile while talking, but when she does, the smile doesn't extend to her eyes.

[jasmar]

I'd say roughly 99% of women make the mistake of assuming that men can read their "signals." They can't. It's not because they're dolts (or molesters), their brains are just wired differently. One of the biggest issues in male-female relationships of all kinds is always that she says he's insensitive - I'm showing him exactly what I want and he ignores it, while he says she expects me to read her mind. It's unrealistic to expect that a man will get it if the woman doesn't come out and say it… clearly. (And not to let the guys off the hook, they need to keep asking rather than tune the woman out.)

I have no idea how Cheryl feels about Ian, or how/what they've communicated. But I don't think it's necessarily a good idea to make assumptions one way or another.

[aname]

I can't understand why this guy is getting such a bad rap. I think he is cute in a boy next door sort of way (although I can see the reference to a rat because his lower face is kind of pointy). Quite frankly, I haven't noticed any tension between them when he rubs her arms while waiting to get their scores. They touch each other all the time while dancing and training, so he may feel he can be demonstrative with her without her feeling uncomfortable. If, however, she does feel uncomfortable, she should tell him. Cheryl doesn't strike me as the shy type.

[lleyki]

You're giving Cheryl way too little credit and giving her a big role in a drama I seriously doubt she'd be involved in. If there's one thing that best sums up Cheryl Burke on DWtS, it's the word 'professionalism'. She has always enjoyed the mini-interviews and after-dance patter, and in the background when the cameras are concentrating on someone else, you could see her having an easy friendly banter or relationship with her partner. Not so this year. I doubt if Cheryl would even have given a thought to such an intricate game such as the one you envision above. As for Ian's not seeming to age? Ick, he looks every bit of his 43ish years and then some, to me. He looks like a sleezy red-eyed rodent.

I never said SHE would engage in it, rather that she might be slightly hesitant to be as comfortable on camera with Ian as to not give the PRODUCERS any idea of even SUGGESTING it. Again I imagine it might be natural human instinct to be more careful and hesitant around a guy who's single rather than her previous partners who were happily married men, that everyone KNEW were happily married men so they weren't even options (in most people's mind...we'll ignore the people who cheat and look past that) and there was less chance of them getting the wrong idea.

Plus during both those seasons she was single and this time she's not and there may be something to the fact that now that she has a boyfriend, is in a relationship that's fairly new, there may be a greater effort to make sure there is NO question or hint of anything unprofessional.

All that however is moot to me, because like I've said, to each his own, but I see nothing weird or different about Cheryl with the way she reacts to Ian and I see nothing sleazy, icky or direspectful about Ian. When I think of sleazy, I think of Mario. That's why everything about him and Karina bugged me last season because everything about him came off as contrived and sleazy. Ian seems like the goofy, friendly guy I've thought him to be since his 90210 days. But hey, opinions will vary after all.

The appropriateness comes from the person it's done too, not from who does it. If Cheryl doesn't like the guy, or has asked him not to do that, or for whatever reason she doesn't like Ian rubbing her arms and shoulders up and down like he does, then it's inappropriate. This isn't an all things being equal situation, because the touch of another person does indeed feel welcome or not depending on whether you like the person doing the touching. She liked Drew. She liked Emmitt. She's said that she felt comfortable around them and their families that she could be playful like a sister or friend without Drew or Emmitt or their wifes/families thinking she was flirting or anything. But if she doesn't like Ian, and doesn't feel comfortable being touchy-feely with him, then he needs to stop assuming it's ok to rub her like that. And by the way, the way Ian rubs her arms and shoulders up and down like that is more of a sexual/flirty contact unless it's your dad doing it. Also, there are certain ways to touch or rub a woman's arms/shoulders that feels just 'friendly/we did a great job' and other ways where it's just plain creepy and/or too intimate for what the woman feels is appropriate for them. And Cheryl's been giving off every signal there is that she doesn't like him doing that. It gets clearer each week, in fact. She stiffens perceptibly, and has now begun to walk from the judge's dais to the backstage without waiting for Ian. Her body language is loud and clear.

Honestly though this is just YOUR opinion based on YOUR perception of the situation, it doesn't make it true. You don't know for a FACT that Cheryl is bothered and uncomfortable by Ian's rubbing her shoulders. You have simply come to that conclusion from your observations. However I've watched the same shows and saw none of that so it proves unless one of us is Cheryl or knows her personally we can't speak with absolute certainty on what is really going on.

Still it just seems to me that Cheryl doesn't seem like the type to shy from telling someone flat out that something they're doing is making her uncomfortable. I mean really she has to do a lot more holding and touching with Ian, why would his simply rubbing her shoulders freak her out or bother her that much. Also, I can't see someone who's so uncomfortable and weirded out by some guy even rubbing his hands on her arms, would be willing to go watch strippers with him and have him strip infront of her.

Sure we all know the producers are probably behind these set-ups but if she's so uncomfortable and creeped out by him, she'd have maybe suggested that they set it up so a male stripper comes to practice but not that he goes up and starts gyrating infront of her too and not for nothing Cheryl didn't look anything but totally amused in that sequence. I saw no appeal or attraction so I know she's not romantically into him but she didn't looked creeped out or like she thought he was sleazy. I saw nothing in her reaction but that she thought he was a huge dork.

Seriously the girl has spoken glowingly about Ian on her blog, saying many times that he actually reminds her of Drew, that he has a similar work ethic, a similar need to be perfect and the same drive and she's really confident in him and happy with him as her partner. Again to each his own but I'm just not seeing where all those negative reactions are coming from this season and especially against Ian....

It's like on one set of boards, there are people who like Ian but just downright hate Cheryl for having won two times and are determined to knock them because they don't want her to win again. On the flipside are those who just don't like Ian for whatever reason and are determined that somehow he offends Cheryl and she doesn't really like him. Don't understand or agree with either one. Oh and there are some pictures from some event Cheryl and Ian both attended this past weekend at GettyImages and Wireimage (can't link because I don't have enough posts here) where I'd hardly say she looks creeped out or uncomfortable by him.

ETA: I agree aname and I also want to say that I do understand the comments I've seen at other boards that she doesn't seem as sparkly but that it's more to do with her possibly being tired. That I can definitely believe because she and Karina especially, and even Edyta, lasted right down to the end of the season and then quickly had to head to the tour that had to be grueling and in no time Season 4 was on them. That probably has taken its toll somewhat even if she's pretty young and vital.

[Nemeses]

Plus during both those seasons she was single and this time she's not and there may be something to the fact that now that she has a boyfriend, is in a relationship that's fairly new, there may be a greater effort to make sure there is NO question or hint of anything unprofessional.

According to Cheryl, she was in a relationship with a guy during all of her first season and several weeks into her second season. The only reason her relationship is being noticed now is because she's dating a celeb, whereas her previous relationships weren't celebs.

All that however is moot to me, because like I've said, to each his own, but I see nothing weird or different about Cheryl with the way she reacts to Ian and I see nothing sleazy, icky or direspectful about Ian. ....... But hey, opinions will vary after all.

Exactly, which makes my opinion as valid as anyone else's

Honestly though this is just YOUR opinion based on YOUR perception of the situation, it doesn't make it true.

That's what we ALL are doing here, giving OUR opinions based on OUR perceptions, including you. None of which makes it true or not true.... these are opinions, valid opinions.

You don't know for a FACT that Cheryl is bothered and uncomfortable by Ian's rubbing her shoulders. You have simply come to that conclusion from your observations.

And you don't know for a FACT that she isn't, and you have come to the conclusion from your observations as to the opposite. So where does that leave us? Exactly where we started, with me offering a valid opinion and you offering a different valid opinion. All any of us have are our observations, and all those of us at FoRT can do is respect other opinions and know that because you don't agree with one, that doesn't make it an invalid opinion. I have stated my opinion, I will expect that you allow me the courtesy of having that opinion until I find some valid reason to change it. I also expect that we all have enough intelligence and respect for each other in the DWtS thread that we can allow opposing opinions to live, thrive, or die as the tide turns. And that we all understand that ALL of us are offering only opinions based on our perceptions, which means every opinion has a place here. And for those of us who have had the pleasure of meeting some of these people in real life (From this season's names, I myself have met Shandi, Cheryl, Samantha, John, and Tom. I know that others here have met some of the same ones plus others as well), we have our perceptions based on that as well. I think all opinions can co-exist here.

[freethinker]

I just wonder what the judges were talking about at the end, and those 'missing seconds' we didn't get to see...
anyone?

Since they called it a "misstep" I'm wondering if maybe Ian didn't trip or something and bump into the camera person. If the shot was just switching to that camera at that exact moment, it would explain the ceiling shot or whatever it was that we all saw.

[klm1]

I caught a clip of the infamous what-the-hell-happened-to-the-camera portion of their dance. It looked like he simply forgot his steps. However, it wasn't nearly as tragic as Len made it out to be. If I hadn't been so focused on him and what happened, I doubt I would have noticed. The judges took off a lot for an error that, to me, seemed so small. And could someone explain how their dance was NOT the encore performance??????

Nemeses, do tell if you can. Under what circumstances did you meet the above mentioned folks? Any perceptions, tidbits, etc. you can share? If not, no problem.

[Nemeses]

Nemeses, do tell if you can. Under what circumstances did you meet the above mentioned folks? Any perceptions, tidbits, etc. you can share? If not, no problem.

klm1, my career involves having to work one-on-one with a lot of celebs, as well as do some work for them behind-the-scenes. I'd rather keep work at work though, thank you for understanding that. I'll send you a PM, though.

[lleyki]

According to Cheryl, she was in a relationship with a guy during all of her first season and several weeks into her second season.

Did she tell you that personally...I'm only asking because I do know that Cheryl supposedly had a boyfriend during her first season, I think it was rumored that it was some guy almost twice her age who may have been someone she danced professionally with.

However, soon after her first season wrapped, she removed him off her myspace page and stated she was single and then there was some talk that he supposedly said in some interview that she'd basically broken up with him because he was in NY and she'd decided to stay in LA rather than go back to NY or something or another. Honestly I didn't pay that much attention to it but as far as I knew that was really the only talk of relationships I heard in connection to her...well except the press briefly trying to put her with Nick Lachey. So I was just curious if it was something you knew personally.

ETA: Let it be known right now...I have never insinuated or stated that people aren't allowed to their varying opinions and I have no problem whatsoever with anyone disagreeing with me and yes I'm well aware that my opinion may be just as invalid as someone else's. I was merely making a point that unless something is stated clearly out of someone's mouth or there is concrete reason to believe it, it is all just assumption and speculation and to me it seems unfair to judge a person (meaning some who consider Ian some creep because he's touching Cheryl even if she's uncomfortable and bothered by him) based on what could merely be your misleading assumption.

Even while I say I see nothing inappropriate or different about Cheryl...I won't say she and Ian are best of friends and she just adores him because I don't know them personally to make that absolute fact. However, what I do have to go on for now anyway is the words out of the girl's own mouth and until she states Ian's some creep or that she's uncomfortable to be around him, I'll choose to believe her when she says she likes him and likes having him as her partner and that he's a great guy.

Now that said, anyone see the really cute ESPN segment about Cheryl's going for the 3-Peat with Kenny Mayne narrating it?

[Rattus]

I'll take that "uncomfortable with touching = deep and abiding contempt" with a grain of salt. There is this guy that used to rub my shoulders and hang his arm around me. My friends asked if he was making me uncomfortable because it certainly looked like he was. And it looked like that because he was making me uncomfortable. Anyway, come June I will have been married to him for twenty years. So who knows what goes on in anyone's mind.