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Thread: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

  1. #351
    Brevity Impaired bahurupiya's Avatar
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain;4048484;
    Many of your observations are spot on, but only as they relate to material desires.
    Well, Thank You! I am openly opining that material desires have played a significant role in Kate's thinking from the beginning.

    I think everybody, parents and non-parents alike, has their own ideas about what children need and don't need, what is acceptable or not acceptable, what constitutes an absolute necessity and what would just be a nice luxury to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain;4048484;
    Children do not NEED organic food or fancy private schools...These are the things that KATE needs to satisfy her narcissism and greed and desire for fame...
    You may be right. I don't think that many people would argue that certainly now she has a definite taste for fame, etc.

    What I am suggesting is that in her view, before she became famous, space to play and organic food, etc were things that she believed that her children needed, that it would be unacceptable to her for them not to have those things. And I believe that's why she agreed to do the show.

    Now once the show became successful, she obviously enjoyed all the perks, and once her marriage began to unravel on the show, and it became a huge hit, clearly her notions of what her kids - and she - need and must have has gone way beyond room to play and organic food.

    I don't remember at exactly which episode in which season the show "jumped the shark," but I do remember LOTS of discussions, online and off, in which I joined others in lamenting that the show had ceased to be about the day-to-day life of an ordinary family with eight small children, including sextuplets, and begun to be about the family's endless series of public appearances, sometimes all together, sometimes just Kate, and how well her books were doing, and the difficulties of keeping the papparazzi at bay.

    I guess I'm a difficult viewer to please, because I just noticed I started my 1st post in this thread complaining about how boring the recent "specials" have been, all about Kate and her faulty hose spigot!

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain;4048484;
    There are plenty of parents who choose to have a lot of children and who do just fine without making their children work on a TV show
    A TV show isn't going to be an option for most of them. Unless the "lot" gets up there in Duggar territory, or some of the children are sextuplets. The bar has been set pretty high now.

    But I think you make a very good point. I know people who don't have a TV. I know people who consider a TV to be a necessity.

    I can say the same thing about electricity, a pool, an indoor kitchen, an indoor pool, water piped into the house, an indoor bathroom, multiple indoor bathrooms, shampoo, goats, air conditioning, a car, a Chanel bag, teeth, straight teeth, - the list goes on!

    We all have our own notions of where the line is drawn, what's acceptable or not in terms of our standard of living.

    I'm certainly not advocating Kate's as a universal one that everybody should have, I'm just saying that's hers - or rather, that was hers.
    One man's conspiracy is another man's business plan.

  2. #352
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Spider Solitaire Arkadium Champion, Doyu Gems Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    Well, I'm agreeing with Mushybrain.

    That may have been Kate's standard of living... but she was wrong. To me, it's as simple as that.

    For an example, my parents raised 7 kids in a 3 bedroom bungalow (yes, my four brothers shared a room! Two bunk beds made it work). One livingroom and one large kitchen and one bathroom. We went to a private religious school and got by on just my father's income. We ate a heck of a lot of potatoes.
    I never felt in "need" of anything, not finacially anyway. I didn't have much, but I really learned to use my imagination in play, I also spent a lot of time "making" my own toys. I learned a lot by having little.
    The only thing that lacked in my family was love and attention, and I empathize with those kids because I KNOW that is what they need most. Parents need to be selfless when it comes to their kids. They need to find a little time for themselves too.
    Jon and Kate's decision may have earned them a large house and all kinds of luxuries, but it cost them their marriage, their kids' privacy and their decency. That's a heavy price to pay to fulfill a "standard of living."

    Btw, it took a lot of student loans, but I also saw my way through university with a bachelor's in English. I struggled finacially when I graduated, but through that struggle, I learned the value of a buck. I don't have to worry much now with all the loans paid off, but I'll always have what I was forced to learn about living within your means.
    Nothing wrong with that. My kids are paying half of their university, even if I can afford to pay for all of it, they are going to pay for half.

  3. #353
    FORT Fogey Mah Jongg Solitaire Champion nanarama's Avatar
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    I have five children and didn't pay for their college. Shocking, I know. They made it through, and the funny thing is, they have thanked me for not giving them things on a silver platter. They experienced roommates (as did I when I was in school) who had a free ride and sloughed off and took it for granted. Often they flunked out of class and slept till three while their parents still paid their way.
    My husband's parents could easily have paid for their children's college and didn't. Not a one.
    We are lucky here in Georgia to have the Hope Grant that covers public college here, (4 years) with a minimum GPA.
    All that aside, the justification that the show was essential to rear a large family just doesn't hold water.
    Last edited by nanarama; 08-28-2010 at 11:18 AM.

  4. #354
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    Jon and Kate's decision may have earned them a large house and all kinds of luxuries, but it cost them their marriage, their kids' privacy and their decency. That's a heavy price to pay to fulfill a "standard of living."
    There's a difference between wanting to do the best for your kids and a sense of entitlement. The Gosselins believed they were entitled to special treatment from the beginning with the sextuplets: they attempted (but failed) to extend the Medicaid-paid nursing care beyond the standard year limit because Kate believes society was obligated to provide it, even though there was no medical need. They told their sob story at one church after another, raking in who knows how much money from the unsuspecting congregations, even when they were under contract with TLC to do the show and with Zondervan for the book deal. Their success in selling out their family simply fueled a higher level of entitlement thinking: from more time with the Medicaid nurse, organic food and a larger house, to a mansion, live-in help, luxury cars, etc. The long-term effect of a "we're special, we deserve it" mind-set on the kids is yet to be seen, but I can't believe they won't be affected by it, especially the tups, whose entire lives have been on display from birth, like an attraction at a zoo.

  5. #355
    Brevity Impaired bahurupiya's Avatar
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    Quote Originally Posted by nanarama;4050573;
    ...the justification that the show was essential to rear a large family just doesn't hold water.
    She, like you, like everybody, has her own ideas, convictions, whatever you want to call it, about what is or is not "essential."

    My comments are just my observation, and should not be taken as an attempt to either justify - or decry - her beliefs or her choices.

    When it's been entertaining, I've enjoyed watching the show, but I can't really claim to be either her fan nor her detractor.

    I do think that the events of the last couple of years have impacted her in ways and to an extent that she did not forsee when she originally agreed to do the show - but that, too, is just an observation and an opinion.

    Radaronline could pop up tomorrow with a pdf of her secret diary in which she planned the whole thing back in 1998!
    One man's conspiracy is another man's business plan.

  6. #356
    FORT Fanatic mushybrain's Avatar
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    Quote Originally Posted by bahurupiya;4050660;
    What I am suggesting is that in her view, before she became famous, space to play and organic food, etc were things that she believed that her children needed, that it would be unacceptable to her for them not to have those things. And I believe that's why she agreed to do the show.
    Hi bahurupiya. Again, what you say would be completely logical, if we weren't talking about Kate Gosselin. I don't agree that Kate's main concerns have much at all to do with the needs of her children. She exhibits classic narcissistic behaviors, so EVERYTHING is about what is good for her.

    When she looked out upon her expansive new homestead, her words were "mine, all mine," not "I am so happy that the kids have so much space to play in now." Her organic shtick is mostly for show - to make it appear that she is some kind of extra-special, super-dee-duper mom. But it is nothing more than disingenuous pretense (um, Kate, sweetie, there's nothing organic about that free Juicy Juice). She whined and cried about not being able to afford organic milk all the time. Sorry, but if she honestly had a strong conviction that the kids "needed" organic milk, she would have foregone a tanning or two to make sure they got it. I don't believe she even truly understands what "organic" means. She is a complete phony.

    Quote Originally Posted by bahurupiya;4050660;
    She, like you, like everybody, has her own ideas, convictions, whatever you want to call it, about what is or is not "essential."
    And therein lies the rub. A narcissist has a warped sense of entitlement. Kate's "essentials" (and I'm not talking indoor plumbing here) have all come at the expense of her children. She has gained her "essentials" by allowing TLC to film her children naked, partially naked relieving themselves on potties, and being mocked, criticized and threatened (by her). She has allowed TLC to lie to the children (Hey kids, it's Christmas Day!!! Oh, never mind, no it's not. We just needed a shot that looked spontaneous.), and has allowed them to be filmed in deplorable conditions (suck it up kids, it's only 100+ degrees here on the streets of New York). There is no "essential" that makes any of that acceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by bahurupiya;4050660;
    Radaronline could pop up tomorrow with a pdf of her secret diary in which she planned the whole thing back in 1998!
    There has already been plenty of speculation and evidence that she had, indeed, intended to try for multiples. And she and Jon vigorously shopped around the idea for a show.

    I don't mean this post to be argumentative. Like you, bahurupiya, I am giving my observations and opinions about the Gosselin situation. I quite like that people can post very differing opinions here without it devolving into nastiness.

    Have a great night.
    Last edited by mushybrain; 08-29-2010 at 02:51 AM.

  7. #357
    Over and Out! Bunny555's Avatar
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    Quote Originally Posted by bahurupiya;4050660;
    I do think that the events of the last couple of years have impacted her in ways and to an extent that she did not forsee when she originally agreed to do the show - but that, too, is just an observation and an opinion.
    I think that if Kate's divorce from Jon was as traumatic as she'd like everyone to believe, then she would have closed ranks and prioritized the emotional needs of her children. She gave a very personal and invase account of her chikdren's reactions to the divorce to People magazine, she never missed an opportunity to share her tale of woe, complete with crocodile tears, to any media that would listen. She and TLC created the "poor Kate" bandwagon and it's still going strong. She is disingenuous and could have protected her children from the media circus at any time but really how can you expect a clown to stop a circus?

  8. #358
    Brevity Impaired bahurupiya's Avatar
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    Quote Originally Posted by mushybrain;4051109;
    She has gained her "essentials" by allowing TLC to film her children naked, partially naked relieving themselves on potties, and being mocked, criticized and threatened (by her). She has allowed TLC to lie to the children (Hey kids, it's Christmas Day!!! Oh, never mind, no it's not. We just needed a shot that looked spontaneous.), and has allowed them to be filmed in deplorable conditions (suck it up kids, it's only 100+ degrees here on the streets of New York).
    I make no claim to be a big fan of children on reality shows at all, you are so preaching to the choir there! (Albeit a somewhat hypocritical choir, since I watch shows that have children on them).

    Nor can I claim any great insight into the Inner Kate, or all the permutations and complexities of her psychological profile. I will leave all that to the experts on the subject!

    My sole contention is that to me, as a viewer, the Kate I see today seems markedly different from the Kate I remember in the early days of the show, and my speculation is that a large part, if not most, of the reason for those changes has to do with the realities of show business life and being in the public eye.

    I'm suggesting that her views on any number of things are likely to be different now than when she signed on for that first documentary, even the first season of JK8 - including her views on what things are necessities, for herself and her children.

    You could be right, her very motivations might also have changed.

    There is definitely, in my perception, a change in the way she reads.

    That shouldn't be taken to mean that I considered her more appealing or likeable then than now.

    Sometimes, I see people on TV and get the impression that they would really have fun if they came to visit, and so would I!

    I've never had that feeling about Kate. I've never gotten any sense from her of shared worldview.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunny555;4051119;
    I think that if Kate's divorce from Jon was as traumatic as she'd like everyone to believe, then she would have closed ranks and prioritized the emotional needs of her children.
    I am going to be very frank about this.

    While obviously I don't know what's in her heart, after observing the way she speaks to and interacts with Jon, I wasn't referring so much to her personal feelings about his no longer being present in the home, but more to the events of the last couple of years in terms of the rapid spike in fame, exposure, tabloids, DWTS, etc, and how those things have impacted her specifically, and independent of the ending of her marriage.
    Last edited by bahurupiya; 08-29-2010 at 10:36 AM.
    One man's conspiracy is another man's business plan.

  9. #359
    Over and Out! Bunny555's Avatar
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    Quote Originally Posted by bahurupiya;4051172;
    I am going to be very frank about this.

    While obviously I don't know what's in her heart, after observing the way she speaks to and interacts with Jon, I wasn't referring so much to her personal feelings about his no longer being present in the home, but more to the events of the last couple of years in terms of the rapid spike in fame, exposure, tabloids, DWTS, etc, and how those things have impacted her specifically, and independent of the ending of her marriage.
    None of those things would have happened if the divorce didn't make front page news. She could have stopped the intrusion at any time. She took the fame that resulted from it and ran with it.....She is a grown woman who knows exactly what she is doing. No sympathy, no pity......she wanted that brood. She should act like the poor suffering single mom she claims to be if she wants anyone to buy what she is selling.

  10. #360
    chavy chaf chaf Asteroids Champion, Bejeweled 2 Champion, GalaGalaGa Champion, Spider Solitaire Arkadium Champion, Doyu Gems Champion, Alu`s Revenge Champion, Beat The Meter Champion, BejeweledŽ 2 Action Champion, Little Protectors Champion spockwhat's Avatar
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    Re: About Jon and Kate Plus Or Minus Eight

    Quote Originally Posted by bahurupiya;4051172;

    Nor can I claim any great insight into the Inner Kate, or all the permutations and complexities of her psychological profile. I will leave all that to the experts on the subject!

    My sole contention is that to me, as a viewer, the Kate I see today seems markedly different from the Kate I remember in the early days of the show, and my speculation is that a large part, if not most, of the reason for those changes has to do with the realities of show business life and being in the public eye.

    I'm suggesting that her views on any number of things are likely to be different now than when she signed on for that first documentary, even the first season of JK8 - including her views on what things are necessities, for herself and her children.

    You could be right, her very motivations might also have changed.
    Ok, I'm going to give you a break on this.

    It is possible that when Kate initially started all this she was ignorant of the consequences. We've seen many many parents make bad decisions for the children based on good intentions. Maybe her intentions were good, and she was simply ignorant.
    Or maybe she's always craved fame and wealth and was able to fool herself into believing that what she was doing was for the kids.
    Or maybe she's always craved fame and wealth, and is just lying to everyone.

    Whatever her intentions were, it is today that matters... I'm sure she's heard her supporters and detractors. I'd be surprised if she's never been told that what she is doing is destroying her children't rights, especially to privacy.
    But she chooses, now, to continue. The book was the latest evidence of her denying her children's rights.

    I was a psychology minor in university, and she does show signs of narcissistic personality disorder. Of course, I'm not qualified to diagnose her, (heck, it was just a minor, and I never met her!), but there is signs that she may have a personality disorder. May have.

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