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  1. #4531
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by coltnlasma;3710303;
    Not too many generations ago, when children of abuse tried to talk to a parent/trusted adult, they might have their revelation met with repulsion, and possibly be told "I don't want to hear about that; never mention it again." I'm trying to keep that in mind with my reaction to this story, but I'll admit that I'm having trouble seeing the healthy benefits of such a marketed public disclosure.
    I don't particularly see any benefits to this either, but neither do I choose to revile her. Growing up in an abusive environment (and there are many things that, to my mind, qualify as abuse) more often than not will create "character anomalies" and I am no more inclined to dismissive or abusive to people with those troubles than I am to people with physical anomalies.
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  2. #4532
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    I'm probably coming to this situation because I work at a rape crisis center, but I think that Mackenzie has every right to disclose (or not) the particulars of her abuse. Keeping secrets make people emotionally ill, period. If she feels by telling her story she can help herself or help others in the same situation, she has that right. I just hope she wasn't "pushed" into disclosing by an agent or someone else looking for a quick buck.

    I'm sorry for the terrible experiences she's had, and I wish her the best in being a healthy person.

    I find it interesting how people (and not just on this site) are discussing Mackenzie's decision to speak out, but not discussing what kind of father would have a sexual relationship with his daughter, consensual or not.

  3. #4533
    Premium Member canuckinchile's Avatar
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    I think the type of "father" John was speaks for itself. There's really not much to say about it, and he's dead. She, on the other hand, is releasing a book. Not to belittle her horrible childhood, despicable father, but the whole publicity surrounding it, turns me off and makes me somewhat doubtful. I, too, hope this helps her and she can remain drug free.

  4. #4534
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by brunette trixie;3710343;
    I find it interesting how people (and not just on this site) are discussing Mackenzie's decision to speak out, but not discussing what kind of father would have a sexual relationship with his daughter, consensual or not.
    I think it's clear that everyone pretty much feels revulsion about that part of the story. John Phillips was pretty screwed up and he was never going to win any parenting awards, even before this latest revelation.

    It's not that I don't feel compassion. I just do not want to hear about this stuff. I'm sorry she got a raw deal. I guess I'd feel more compassion for her if it didn't seem like a) she was still using drugs (from all accounts I've read, she did behave as if she was still using), b) that she is using her crummy childhood to make money and c) that she feels the need to go on national television and talk about having intercourse with her father, rather than dealing with it quietly and off camera.

    At what point did it become acceptable for NOTHING to be kept private?

    I understand that people have bad childhoods. I also know a number of people who, well into their 40's and beyond, are still using it as an excuse. I worked with a woman who burst into tears at the slightest criticism. She always talked about how her father yelled at her when she did anything remotely wrong. Well, that sucks, but you know what? She's 48 years old and has never been to therapy to work on that, even though many have urged her to. It's harder to have sympathy for people who can't help themselves.

    MacKenzie got screwed where childhoods are concerned, but you don't see her other siblings running to Oprah about their dad. From what I've read, the audience at Oprah wasn't too much on her side either. Sounds like she just made everyone really uncomfortable. There certainly have been enough people on Oprah who revealed some pretty dark things about themselves and they didn't get that reation. Didn't that other woman - the one who wrote the book about having a sexual relationship with her father - go on Oprah and talk about it? I don't remember this kind of reaction to her (even from me! ).
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

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  5. #4535
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by brunette trixie;3710343;
    I'm probably coming to this situation because I work at a rape crisis center, but I think that Mackenzie has every right to disclose (or not) the particulars of her abuse. Keeping secrets make people emotionally ill, period. If she feels by telling her story she can help herself or help others in the same situation, she has that right. I just hope she wasn't "pushed" into disclosing by an agent or someone else looking for a quick buck.

    I'm sorry for the terrible experiences she's had, and I wish her the best in being a healthy person.

    I find it interesting how people (and not just on this site) are discussing Mackenzie's decision to speak out, but not discussing what kind of father would have a sexual relationship with his daughter, consensual or not.
    Brunette Trixie--hi. Thanks so much for your post. I have some experience with this while doing Victim Witness Advocacy work and also have a friend who was abused by a family "friend."

    I think that until a person sees/knows someone who has been through this kind of terrible situation it's hard to know just how much of a person's entire life is affected by this.

    Not only emotionally--but also behaviorally--there have been studies done in the recent past that show that a person's brain organization (how they think and how they process information and make decisions)--especially is children--is physically changed by being the target of such activity by a parent or other adult in which one is helpless to do anything.

    IMO MacKenzie has helped herself and also many many other people by talking about this aloud and so publicly.

    Also---

    --My friend who was abused by a family "friend"--her own parents refuse to believe or accept that it even happened. (She had recovered repressed memories of this abuse.) This reaction of her parents--denial--is similar to what we're seeing from MacKenzie's family.

    This is related to the protecting that many people who knew about the situaton seem to have done of her father for many years.

    It is heartbreaking to see someone not only having had to go through this kind of abuse (which is both physical AND emotional) and then to see how their own families/loved ones/friends refuse to accept it and/or try to protect the perpetrator instead of helping the victim.

    There is no question that for some people just the idea of this happening is too overwhelming to accept. And IMO that is part of the reaction we're seeing to MacKenzie's story.

    The other part of the reaction form other people is anger--that such activities actually occur--and anger that they have to think about such a horrendous thing being done to someone.

    And especially anger at the person who is making them think about this kind of thing actually happening to someone they know and/or care about. It also forces people to think that it might happen to someone they love and care about. The anger is a powerful reaction. I saw it in my friend's parent who were so angry at their daughter for even bringing it up that they threatened to disown her if she talked about it to them.

    We are all human and it is much much easier to deny that such things ever happen and/or to blame the victim than to have to face that they could happen to anyone and everyone. Even to us.
    Last edited by Wind Dancer; 09-24-2009 at 02:00 PM.

  6. #4536
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by Noreen;3710294;
    An album featuring previously unreleased material by John Phillips and his daughter Mackenzie will be released at the beginning of next year, according to attorney Jeffrey A. Greenberg, who represents John Phillips’ estate.

    John and Mackenzie Phillips exclusive: Unreleased musical collaboration to come out next year | EW.com
    Quote Originally Posted by canuckinchile;3710383;
    I think the type of "father" John was speaks for itself. There's really not much to say about it, and he's dead. She, on the other hand, is releasing a book. Not to belittle her horrible childhood, despicable father, but the whole publicity surrounding it, turns me off and makes me somewhat doubtful. I, too, hope this helps her and she can remain drug free.
    And an album.

    Even though I like The Mamas and The Papas' music, it will be hard to listen to it again without thinking about Mackenzie's allegations. It was already hard enough, knowing about John Phillips' extremely heavy and long-term drug abuse.

    And the new album? I'm a music lover of many genres, but I really don't want to listen to incestuous music. "Here's the music that my father and I made while we were having a consensual sexual relationship for years, and I want you to buy it".

    For those who may have assumed that I have no compassion for her, au contraire. It's just that I really question the ways that she is going about getting healed.

    I stand by my initial reaction ($$$).
    Last edited by VelvetRed; 09-24-2009 at 02:06 PM.
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  7. #4537
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    I've seen incest firsthand. I think a majority of people in today's world have, as well. Sadly, it's always been pretty prevalent in society.
    I do know/understand/empathize with the desire / need to cleanse / purge one's soul.
    I don't know, however, that the Oprah show is the appropriate vehicle for that purging.
    To Thine Own Self Be True

  8. #4538
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by norealityhere;3710436;
    I've seen incest firsthand. I think a majority of people in today's world have, as well. Sadly, it's always been pretty prevalent in society.
    I do know/understand/empathize with the desire / need to cleanse / purge one's soul.
    I don't know, however, that the Oprah show is the appropriate vehicle for that purging.
    It is how Oprah came out on her abuse. It has become the newest "rage" to have been molested and come out publicly if you are a "celebrity" It seems to me that at least 2 - 3 times a year a different celebrity is breaking the silence.
    Most incest survivors do not want or need to go on national tours and tout the abuse.
    Am I favoring John Phillips...hell no. I am just tired of hearing about the "poor childhoods"
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  9. #4539
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Noreality--I agree that it might not be the best forum--but look how it has people thinking and talking about an important and ongoing horrendous crime/behavior that most people ordinarily wouldn't want to even think about much less express their thoughts on.

    IMO in the long run Mackenzie is helping a lot of people--incest/abuse victims--who up until now have been voiceless.

    Having watched my friend struggle to talk about it even with someone understanding like me--I can't begin to imagine what it took forLMackenzie to write about and then talk about so publicly.

    My hat is off to her for her sacrifice.

  10. #4540
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    I do agree that it has people talking about it and, of course, a much needed topic. And, as stated, I do have firsthand empathy for her.
    I also remember a trial in CA about 20 years ago. It was concerning children at a preschool - Virginia McMartin preschool. It became a witchhunt and it ruined lots of lives and the allegations were never proven. Prior to that time, people barely discussed the topic. So, it was good to bring a voice to it, but very devastating to those whose lives were decimated in the process by lies.
    I'm not saying that Mackenzie lied. She's the only one who actually knows the truth in this case.
    I just have a hard time with celebs who tell their stories in this manner.
    To Thine Own Self Be True

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