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  1. #4171
    Signed, Sealed, Delivered prhoshay's Avatar
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Alcohol DOES have a way of bringing your TRUE feelings to the surface, and to your lips.
    "...each affects the other, and the other affects the next, and the world is full of stories, but the stories are all one." - Mitch Albom, one helluva writer

    When you throw a rock into a pack of dogs, you know which one you hit by the one that yelps!

  2. #4172
    FORT Fogey Coco46's Avatar
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    You're right about that. In Mel's case is was feeling sorry more for his alcoholism and what it's doing to his family. What a mess, a horrible disease!

  3. #4173
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by norealityhere;3417313;
    I guess we can go ahead and absolve every catholic rapist, murder, thief, etc. as long as said person repents or says 20 Hail Mary's or goes to Church the day after the sins are committed. We can also deem them as devout catholics for all the weight that carries. Sorry, but my grandmother is rolling in her grave at this conversation.
    I agree with Coltnlasma's definition of devout. I also see the term as being more about your devotion to the church, and to the rituals of the church. This may be the protestant in me coming out, but I don't think the church has the power to forgive sin -- God does that. There is a lot of forgiveness that is extended to rapists, murderers, thieves, etc. There's also a lot of forgiveness extended to those who show cruelty to other people, hold them in harsh judgement, etc. Forgiveness is in direct conflict with justice in a lot of cases, but is the route that the church chooses to go down. I don't see Mel Gibson as being all that different than most any other run of the mill sinner. I can't really say I see it as all that unusual to see the error of your ways, repent, and then still do bad things all over again. So I'd from what little I can know of Mel Gibson through his public persona, he comes across to me as your average run of the mill guy who commits sins and is devoted to his church.

    Quote Originally Posted by Broadway;3417471;
    Hmmm... I never realized that devout = perfect. Luckily my God doesn't work that way.

    I agree with Veruka. I've never seen Mel Gibson declare himself to be devout... that's just an adjective that others seemed to have saddled him with due to the rigidness of the orthodox Catholicism that he apparently has followed/follows/attempts to follow. Nor have I seen nor heard him request to be absolved of his sins.

    From all accounts this man has been tormented by bouts of depression.. depression which has been magnified and fueled by alcoholism. Alcoholism is a disease... wouldn't it be fabulous if everyone that suffered from it was magically cured after the first lapse?
    Very nicely said on all counts.

  4. #4174
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by Veruka;3417658;
    I agree with Coltnlasma's definition of devout. I also see the term as being more about your devotion to the church, and to the rituals of the church.
    If that's true, then being devout doesn't seem to be any indicator of your basic goodness as a person. With your definition it's just a descriptive term for being a good "follower"--which isn't always a good thing. The guys who flew planes into the WTC? They were devout too--just to a different cause. The people who waited on line the other day to be the first people in their neighborhood to see the Hannah Montana movie? It's not religion, but it's probably not a violation of the meaning of the word to call them devout too (since Webster's third definition for devout is "devoted to a pursuit, belief, or mode of behavior").

    So let's split that hair then. Okay. Gibson may be devout. And so that has nothing to do with him also being an ass, a sinner, a hypocrite, and a bad role model.

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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;3417983;
    If that's true, then being devout doesn't seem to be any indicator of your basic goodness as a person. With your definition it's just a descriptive term for being a good "follower"--which isn't always a good thing. The guys who flew planes into the WTC? They were devout too--just to a different cause. The people who waited on line the other day to be the first people in their neighborhood to see the Hannah Montana movie? It's not religion, but it's probably not a violation of the meaning of the word to call them devout too (since Webster's third definition for devout is "devoted to a pursuit, belief, or mode of behavior").

    So let's split that hair then. Okay. Gibson may be devout. And so that has nothing to do with him also being an ass, a sinner, a hypocrite, and a bad role model.
    THank you, Kron. Very well stated.
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    Éirinn go Brách NJ EJ's Avatar
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by Krom;3416636 View Post
    But he appears to be an unrepentant sinner. At least for some of those sins. Being devout implies a willingness to learn the lessons taught by your religion. Has Gibson?
    Mel Gibson funded the construction of a church not affiliated with the local Roman Catholic diocese, the Holy Family Chapel in Agoura, California. This church conducts a Latin mass and observes Traditionalist Catholic doctrine.

    Perhaps it's not fair, but when he gets called out as a cheat, liar, racist, anti-Semite, sexist, etc., he seems like an even bigger hypocrite than your average person. Nobody is perfect, we are all sinners (if you believe in that sort of thing) who are worthy of forgiveness. But he's been pretty judgmental of others so to mix religious metaphores, karma is a b*t*h.

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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Mel Gibson has stated that his father moved the entire family to Australia because the Catholic church in the U.S. was not strict enough. Mel believes that Vatican 2 took a wrong turn, so he's VERY hard line in his beliefs. What a surprise that a hardliners is not always such a great person.(rolling eyes) In my mind these beliefs have nothing to do with the true morality of a person either positive or negative.

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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    Quote Originally Posted by girlsmom;3422514;
    What a surprise that a hardliners is not always such a great person.(rolling eyes)
    I consider this to be true in religion, politics, business...everything, really.
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  9. #4179
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    My .02 cents as a divorced Catholic on my second marriage (though I couldn't be considered devout by any standards, I have ties to the faith but not the politics of the church) - laying the theory and the official statements aside, the church doesn't give a rat's ass if you're divorced. My husband & I weren't married (and I was divorced) when my first daughter was born, and they had no problem baptizing her. Plus, we both have always been allowed to take Communion. No greasing of church palms is necessary if you want to remain in the faith. The church recognizes that their numbers have decreased and in reality, they don't turn you away because of your personal choices. Faith is so personal, if someone wants to label themselves as "devout" then who are we to question it? If Mel Gibson wants to go the annulment route instead of divorce because it makes him feel better, who cares? The end result is the same.
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  10. #4180
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    Re: Miscellaneous Celebrity News

    I think it depends on the priest and that particular church because one of the Catholic churches here was refusing to give communion to anyone that voted for Obama because he is pro-choice.
    Also had a friend who was refused the chance to be married in her own church as she was a) pregnant and b) her future husband was divorced. The priest refused, so they got a notary and had a garden wedding. Refused to baptize the baby too, so they became Baptists.

    As Mel has his own church and presumably own priest for that church, he can probably do what he wants.
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