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Thread: Public Figures Accused of Sexual Harassment/Assault: Harvey Weinstein's avalanche

  1. #671
    FORT Fogey Imperfect1's Avatar
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    Re: Public Figures Accused of Sexual Harassment/Assault: Harvey Weinstein's avalanche

    Quote Originally Posted by redsox girl View Post
    If it's okay to ban R.Kelly , then do we ban the work of every artist in history who did or said things that are morally and or legally reprehensible? We wouldn't have much left. And who is in charge of deciding who is on the blacklist? JMO.
    You've asked some very tough questions, redsox girl, and these are very, very hard decisions to make. And none of this is new. Problems of this nature have been on going for a very long time, and decisions about how to handle them have always been very hard to make.

    But at least NOW, thanks to the growing awareness and higher consciousness brought on by the #MeToo and #Time-Is-Up movements, and thanks to all of the women (and men) who have been bravely speaking up publically, many of these horrible 'wrongs' are no long dark secrets that are never handled. No, it doesn't make the decision-making any easier, but hopefully we're somewhat closer to some kind of resolutions than we've ever been.

    And by the way, let's not forget the morally reprehensible actions that go on EVERY DAY -- ALL OVER THE WORLD. It seems like there are never enough 'good people' who are trying to change things, to even make a dent in all of the horrific things people do to each other!!!!

  2. #672
    FORT Fogey
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    Re: Public Figures Accused of Sexual Harassment/Assault: Harvey Weinstein's avalanche

    I prefer to make my own decisions about whose work I support or condemn.....I hate group decisions when we are told that we are to think thus and so.
    Miss_Griss and redsox girl like this.

  3. #673
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: Public Figures Accused of Sexual Harassment/Assault: Harvey Weinstein's avalanche

    We separate the art from the artist.
    Let me put that in context: We can choose to no longer employ the artist. But to ban works already created? No.
    As a survivor (and I believe I mentioned my abuser was in the arts) I have thought "Wouldn't it be great if I could erase his existence by somehow magically banning what he's already created?" It's a great form of revenge. But, it's also wrong. And if Spotify is going to 'ban' R.Kelly shouldn't they also ban, say, Wagner? After all, he was a anti-Semite who openly supported Hitler.
    What about Phil Spector? He abused women and murdered one of them. Does that mean we ban his works? And since he was a music producer with massive talent (the wall of sound created a while new genre of music) do we ban his creations-which are all tied to famous musicians/singers.
    The best way to let an artist know their behavior is unacceptable is to choose to no longer employ them or be patrons of their creations.
    But, `banning' works already created? No. It's an overcorrection.
    Roman Polanski is a creepy perv, does that mean we burn his movies Or ban people from watching Rosemary's Baby? No. Again, banning works already in existence i(as is the case with R.Kelly) is censorship.
    ETA: Spotify hasn't actually banned R.Kelly, they simply don't advertise or suggest his music to the consumer. But you can still use their service to download his work.
    Last edited by redsox girl; 05-16-2018 at 07:51 PM.
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    Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
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    -From The Old Astronomer (To His Pupil) by Sarah Williams

  4. #674
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    Re: Public Figures Accused of Sexual Harassment/Assault: Harvey Weinstein's avalanche

    I love his music and will continue to listen. I use Pandora. I don't know of anyone suggesting banning his work. This is the first suggestion I've heard of banning. But his abuse of young women must stop.
    Lynda

  5. #675
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: Public Figures Accused of Sexual Harassment/Assault: Harvey Weinstein's avalanche

    Spotify’s Ban on Hateful Content and Conduct Is ‘Too Subjective’ and ‘Dangerous,’ Experts Say
    Spotify Ban on Hateful Content

    Who could argue with a policy that prohibits “hate content” — defined as content that “expressly and principally promotes, advocates, or incites hatred or violence against a group or individual based on characteristics, including, race, religion, gender identity, sex, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, veteran status, or disability” (which would seemingly rule out several presidential campaign speeches) — or declining to promote artists who engage in “hateful conduct” — “something that is especially harmful or hateful (for example, violence against children and sexual violence)”?
    its probably safe to say that Spotify did not get the reaction it expected on Thursday when the company announced a new policy against “hate content” and “hateful conduct” regarding the artists it chooses to promote — and then announced, via a simultaneously published interview, that the first artist to be targeted by this policy will be R. Kelly (and, hours later, rapper XXXTentacion). The streaming giant may have expected to be hailed for its woke-ness and its solidarity with #MeToo, which called Spotify out — along with RCA Records, Ticketmaster, Apple Music and a North Carolina venue, all of which promote or host the artist’s work — last week when it joined the #MuteRKelly movement.
    As anyone who’s been paying attention knows, the announcement hasn’t quite worked out the way that Spotify may have hoped. Through a combination of apparent naivete and hubris and, to put it mildly, clumsy messaging, the company has managed to do the near-impossible: Get people to defend R. Kelly.

    What more suitable artists to target with such a move? Over the past two decades, Kelly has been accused multiple times of sexual misconduct against young and underaged women; he reportedly married protégé Aaliyah when she was 15 (later annulled); he was acquitted of child pornography charges in 2008 despite a video that the prosecution claims shows him having sex with and urinating on an underaged woman; and he was recently accused of running an “abusive sex cult” in which young women are essentially held prisoner and not allowed to eat or go to the bathroom for long periods of time. XXXTentacion stands accused of multiple felonies, including assaulting a pregnant woman and witness tampering.
    And what more effective statement of disapproval for Spotify than its playlists, which in recent years have become a coveted avenue of promotion for all artists, the most popular of which — Rap Caviar, from which XXXTentacion’s music was removed yesterday — is regularly cited as one of the most effective ways to break a hip-hop song? The move represents a way for the company to flex its moral power by effectively shunning an artist without taking the bolder and far more problematic move of censoring them, as Spotify did last summer with white-supremacist music that was posted on its platform.
    “This [policy statement] feels much too undefined, it raises more questions than it answers,” says Charis Kubrin, a professor in the Department of Criminology, Law and Society at the University of California, Irvine, who has written extensively on whether rappers’ lyrics can be used against them in a court of law. “It was obviously led by R. Kelly, but it seems as if they started with him rather than putting the policy in place first and then deciding who would [be penalized]. He’s the poster child for this, and he hasn’t been convicted of anything.”

    “I thought it was very vague — how do you define that as a policy?,” says Lecia Brooks, outreach director of the Southern Poverty Law, one of the groups with which Spotify is working to define hateful content. “It is unfortunate that that the announcement speaks to [just] hate, when there are many other concerns to be raised. They’re trying to hold artists accountable, but who would ascertain what constitutes a credible accusation [of hateful behavior]? It’s dangerous and it has real implications.”
    The outcry was swift and furious, with multiple artists, executives and fans lambasting the company for its vaguely defined policy. Spokespeople for the two artists were quick to reply as well: Kelly’s rep provided an arguably technically accurate if debatable statement noting that the singer “has never has been accused of hate, and the lyrics he writes express love and desire. … Mr. Kelly for 30 years has sung songs about his love and passion for women … Spotify has the right to promote whatever music it chooses, and in this case its actions are without merit”; XXXTentacion’s rep responded with a list of other prominent artists accused — but not all convicted — of serious offenses.
    Even at a glance, the inconsistencies in the policy are quickly apparent on a platform that includes music by at least one convicted murderer (Phil Spector), another who married not just a 13-year-old girl but one who was also his first cousin (Jerry Lee Lewis), another who is synonymous with spousal abuse (the late Ike Turner) and a song with upwards of 70 million plays (Derek & the Dominos’ 1970 hit “Layla”) that was co-written by a man who has been in a mental institution for 35 years after murdering his mother (Jim Gordon).
    "I'm guessing there are artists on [Spotify’s platform] who have committed very serious crimes, the probability that R. Kelly is even in the top five of that list seems slim,” says Kubrin. “This certainly is not censorship, but it’s a move in that direction.”
    Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
    I have loved the stars too fondly to be frightened of the night.
    -From The Old Astronomer (To His Pupil) by Sarah Williams

  6. #676
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    Re: Public Figures Accused of Sexual Harassment/Assault: Harvey Weinstein's avalanche

    And this is how things do turn into a push for censorship. And how #Metoo can lose it's power and credibility when hi-jacked by other groups with a different agenda:
    Women's Group Wants Some Artists Banned from Spotify
    Women’s advocacy group UltraViolet has called for Spotify to remove Steven Tyler, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Don Henley and Ted Nugent, among other

    Women’s Group Wants Steven Tyler, Red Hot Chili Peppers, Don Henley, Ted Nugent Banned From Spotify

    Women’s advocacy group UltraViolet has called for Spotify to remove Steven Tyler, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Don Henley and Ted Nugent, among other artists, from the streaming service, saying the musicians were being “glorified despite allegations of abuse.”
    The demand came after Spotify removed a number of artists last week as they instituted a new hate content policy aimed at refusing exposure to those with a history of abusive behavior.
    “Thank you for taking the important first step of removing infamous abusers R. Kelly and XXXTentacion from your official playlists,” said UltraViolet executive director Shaunna Thomas in an open letter on Spotify chief Daniel Ek. “On behalf of our 1 million members, UltraViolet applauds and supports this choice. Yet as you know, these two men are not the only abusers on your platform. We implore you to take a deeper look at the artists you promote.”

    Citing the four rock artists among a “nowhere near” comprehensive list, she added, “Every time a famous individual continues to be glorified despite allegations of abuse, we wrongly perpetuate silence by showing survivors of sexual assault and domestic violence that there will be no consequences for abuse. … We publish this as an open letter because we hope other platforms like iTunes, Google Play Music and Pandora will continue to follow your lead.”
    In a 2017 essay, Consequence of Sound listed some acts of misconduct that “have long existed in the public domain,” including Tyler’s guardianship of a 16-year-old girl whom he got pregnant when he was 27 and Chili Peppers singer Anthony Kiedis’ sexual relationship with a 13-year-old girl when he was 23. TheWeek.com recounted last year how Henley was fined and put on probation in 1980 after being found with two underage girls who were charged with drug and prostitution offences, and how, in 1978, Nugent faced kidnapping charges in connection with a 17-year-old girl when he was 30.
    Though my soul may set in darkness, it will rise in perfect light;
    I have loved the stars too fondly to be frightened of the night.
    -From The Old Astronomer (To His Pupil) by Sarah Williams

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