Celebrity Apprentice 4/22 Episode_Winning By A Nose ****SPOILERS****

[Dragonlady]

I do agree that Penn's comments are out of line, but we all have said things that are harmful or cruel in our times. Personally I cannot fault him for it because we're not saints any of us.

Well, here's where we disagree..amicably, I hope...just expressing our personal viewpoints....
Yep, you're very correct...we all sometimes say things that can be cruel/harmful but I don't really think most of us take it to that point....Him calling a random blogger such a vile name (equal to me as fa***t -rhymes w/maggot) is just as vile as calling someone a derogatory ethnic name.
So I don't excuse him because others say or do it. It's simply something you shouldn't do.
Lots of people rob/steal from other people and just because so many do it, doesn't make it forgivable or overlooked. Sure that's an extreme but he stepped over the line...just as despicable as Lisa's name-calling. I think this is what shows character...or the lack of it.

Penn's comments long term won't harm him I think - he can be crass and ugly but he also knows when to shut up when he realizes his mistake (which obviously he hasn't yet). Lisa's will.

Again, to me only, Penn's comments (off the show) were extremely offensive and over the top...(talking about his response to the blogger only)....He just doesn't do it on camera as Lisa does...... He, at least, knows when to shut his mouth, something Lisa has yet to do, for sure. His crass words to someone he doesn't know were horrendous.
I think I differ from a lot of people who think racial slurs are more offensive that other words just as cruel.
I can't figure out what diffeernce it makes whether it's about race or just being extremely vile by using such a word as The C-Word? All are horrible and if they behave that way, we have the right to judge them for being so crass and cruel.

Jadewarlock, please know this is just how I feel and definitely not implying my way of thinking is the right way and it's definitely not personal towards you.
Each of us has the right to make our own judgements on behavior.
I also think part of my vehemence is due to my huge disappointment in Penn, who I admired in the beginning of this season of CA.

[spockwhat]

Totally, Dragonlady, but the example you used once again is derogatory towards a group. With the word, 'c@@t', it can be offensive to women in general.

I'm not sure I explained myself well enough earlier.

Take the case of Colton from Survivor. I think he's a complete and utter a$$hole. That's not very nice of me, but I calls him as I sees him, and I reserve my right to do so.

If I were to call him a honky, f****t, a$$hole, (I'd never do that!) then I've crossed into territory that I don't think anyone has need to go , because although I'm obviously refering to Colton as an individual, now I've brought two groups of people in the picture (namely white people and gay people).

The problem with that is those two groups of people (white and gay) have nothing to do with Colton the individual being an a$$hole. But the frequent use of those pejoratives as insults implies that his whiteness and gayness DO have something to do with him being an (not going to type it again) and that is where the trouble lies.

This is why I find the use of pejoratives to be problematic. But general expletives aren't as much trouble. They're not nice and can be used to bully or harm, but sometimes, darn it, they're appropriate!

As for Penn, he stooped to a level he didn't need to go... but I don't recall what the woman was saying to him. Was she also being a jerk in return? I don't think he needs to lie down and just take it, but that word wasn't necessary. I'm not going to make a big deal of it, personally, because I haven't really seen him do a lot of nasty stuff in general. He's tame compared to most reality stars, I think. It's all perspective, I guess.

[jadewarlock]

I don't take offense actually - my case I see his actions a bit different, but like with Lisa I know that both think they need to be this way professionally when in reality you can be funny and witty without being crass (like Clay in general, then George and Lou - when he wasn't turning into the Hulk).

Then again - quite honestly in many cases, these "slurs" to me can't be seen as such anymore when members of their own race, sexual orientation and the like go and use it. Example, the "N-" word is so bad, then WHY are young blacks using it in everyday talk? (The cartoon "The Boondocks" REALLY bothers me for this reason here.) I have heard a couple of young (and I hope naive) young homosexual men use some of the slurs used with gays, and the like.

Then again, people are either extremely hypersensitive or immune to slurs and insults now I just want to say to heck with it and put them in the context I addressed above.

It does disappoint me in Penn; however as I said we're human. Of note though Penn's behavior is rarer than Lisa's from watching both off and off throughout the years.