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Thread: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

  1. #121
    FORT Fogey redsox girl's Avatar
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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I wish you'd been right about Hatch but from what I read (and posted) he tried to say that he was being prosecuted for being gay, and not because of tax evasion so he might have taken offense at it.
    I'm sure it's all subjective as to who takes offense and who doesn't but it does make it difficult to know the difference. I would have thought that was an inappropriate remark but apparently, not. (which I'm glad to hear)
    I really don't know how Richard Hatch would have reacted to Lil John's comments as he didn't actually hear them. I do think where people get into trouble is when they make stereotyped or inappropriate comments about a group of people of which they are not a part. I know there were some incidents in which the police and security guards dealing with hatch allegedly said degrading things to him about his sexuality. Yet, we've all heard minority or persecuted groups of people use the very language and slang words to describe themselves that anger them when non members of their group use those same stereotypes or insults to describe them. Mel Brooks, who is Jewish, wrote the play The Producers which includes the outrageous musical `Springtime For Hitler.' When asked how he could make a comedy about Hitler Brooks replied that the way to take power away from monsters and their monstrous deeds and statements is too mock them. So, when a gay person or a black person or any persecuted group use the words of hate used by others to describe them it's a form of empowerment. It's saying "see, I own those words now, I can use those words." But, an outsider never can or should. Even within communities of minorities or persecuted groups there is no clear consensus on whether or not using slurs to describe oneself is actually appropriate. So, while, let's say one gay person might not have any problem using a slur to identify themselves, another person who is gay will have a totally different take..
    The best thing to do, for me at least, its to simply remember that unless I'm a member of the said group not to say anything that could be misconstrued as an insult. I don't consider it a problem to be mindful of other people's feelings. Think of all of the people in this world who use the word `retarded' to describe someone or something. There's a descriptive word we could do without because it's meant as an insult of course- and how on earth anyone can use that word and not realize they could be using it in the presence of someone who has a friend or family member with a learning delay is beyond me.
    Some people defend their words by saying everyone is too sensitive therefore they have no intention of changing how they speak. But, is it really so hard to try to see how certain words might feel to you if you were in the other person's shoes?

    P.S. I didn't read your post in which you used the word transvestite, so I can't comment. But if you felt attacked I think the way people talk to someone about why word upsets them can make the situation worse if they aren't kind and respectful in explaining why the word is not right. A person might not know they said anything wrong and attacking them for doing so only causes humiliation and embarrassment for the person rather than helping them understand why the word was the wrong choice.
    Sometimes it is better to be kind than it is to be right

  2. #122
    FORT Fogey Ellen's Avatar
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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by anders332 View Post
    what are you talking about? ... Since when did CA become a platform for a presential campaign
    When it came up in his interview with Meredith Viera yesterday.
    "There's no crying in baseball!"
    -- Tom Hanks, A League of Their Own

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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by anders332 View Post
    what are you talking about? All the money raised goes to charity, Trump even kicked in $14 grand so Marlee hit the million dollar mark. He kicked in for Jose's charity when he had to leave - he's kicked money into Nicki's charity when she won the MVP award. He's kicked in money to departing celebs in the past - I remember Tito Ortiz especially.

    This was a fund-raising task = they have them every season - celeb and non-celeb. And we always see (except this week) the cheque presented to someone representing the charity.

    Since when did CA become a platform for a presential campaign
    During all of his recent appearences shows Trump has coyly suggested he will run for president in 2012. Also, as a sidenote, I live in N.H. home of the first primary and Trump has already been sniffing around here, testing the waters to see how a presidential run would play to the public.

    Donald, you went bankrupt twice, you aren't exactly the guy I have in mind for straightening out Americas financial problems Stick To CA.
    Sometimes it is better to be kind than it is to be right

  4. #124
    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by redsox girl View Post
    I really don't know how Richard Hatch would have reacted to Lil John's comments as he didn't actually hear them. I do think where people get into trouble is when they make stereotyped or inappropriate comments about a group of people of which they are not a part. I know there were some incidents in which the police and security guards dealing with hatch allegedly said degrading things to him about his sexuality. Yet, we've all heard minority or persecuted groups of people use the very language and slang words to describe themselves that anger them when non members of their group use those same stereotypes or insults to describe them. Mel Brooks, who is Jewish, wrote the play The Producers which includes the outrageous musical `Springtime For Hitler.' When asked how he could make a comedy about Hitler Brooks replied that the way to take power away from monsters and their monstrous deeds and statements is too mock them. So, when a gay person or a black person or any persecuted group use the words of hate used by others to describe them it's a form of empowerment. It's saying "see, I own those words now, I can use those words." But, an outsider never can or should. Even within communities of minorities or persecuted groups there is no clear consensus on whether or not using slurs to describe oneself is actually appropriate. So, while, let's say one gay person might not have any problem using a slur to identify themselves, another person who is gay will have a totally different take..
    The best thing to do, for me at least, its to simply remember that unless I'm a member of the said group not to say anything that could be misconstrued as an insult. I don't consider it a problem to be mindful of other people's feelings. Think of all of the people in this world who use the word `retarded' to describe someone or something. There's a descriptive word we could do without because it's meant as an insult of course- and how on earth anyone can use that word and not realize they could be using it in the presence of someone who has a friend or family member with a learning delay is beyond me.
    Some people defend their words by saying everyone is too sensitive therefore they have no intention of changing how they speak. But, is it really so hard to try to see how certain words might feel to you if you were in the other person's shoes?

    P.S. I didn't read your post in which you used the word transvestite, so I can't comment. But if you felt attacked I think the way people talk to someone about why word upsets them can make the situation worse if they aren't kind and respectful in explaining why the word is not right. A person might not know they said anything wrong and attacking them for doing so only causes humiliation and embarrassment for the person rather than helping them understand why the word was the wrong choice.
    I like how you explained this. We should always try to be aware of what words we use so as not to cause any discomfort/unkindness to anyone. It's really not that hard to do because most offensive words are usually meant negatively. Lil John's "gay-ass" remark was definitely not used as a compliment and that's why I was baffled.
    Speaking about the "transvetite" remark, this is what was said on the Real Housewives of Miami thread:
    "Hi can we stop using the word transvestite? It's really super rude.
    Also people are transgendered, not transexuals."


    I considered the word to be factual and not denigrating. Possibly "cross-dresser" is a more modern word, as is transgendered, even though the meanings are the same.
    I really wasn't bothered by that remark. I'm just more interested in understanding what's considered offensive and why.
    Last edited by Dragonlady; 04-09-2011 at 04:07 AM.

  5. #125
    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellen View Post
    When it came up in his interview with Meredith Viera yesterday.
    But he only mentioned it because she asked why he didn't make a formal announcement about running for Prez and he explained that you can't have a tv show on the air when you're running for office and he'd have to have NBC cancel the rest of the show. Which would be unfair to the network and the fans.
    I'm no fan of The Donald, even though I find the Apprentice (Celebrity or not) to be entertaining but I don't think he was using it as a platform. I wouldn't be surprised to see Trump do a lot of underhanded things but just don't think this was one of them.

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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    I like how you explained this. We should always try to be aware of what words we use so as not to cause any discomfort/unkindness to anyone. It's really not that hard to do because most offensive words are usually meant negatively. Lil John's "gay-ass" remark was definitely not used as a compliment and that's why I was baffled.
    Speaking about the "transvetite" remark, this is what was said on the Real Housewives of Miami thread:
    "Hi can we stop using the word transvestite? It's really super rude.
    Also people are transgendered, not transexuals."


    I considered the word to be factual and not denigrating. Possibly "cross-dresser" is a more modern word, as is transgendered, even though the meanings are the same.
    I really wasn't bothered by that remark. I'm just more interested in understanding what's considered offensive and why.
    Cross dressing, transgender, transvestite are all seperate catagories and ways of being. They are not interchangeable.

    It is worth googling if anyone is confused.

    I do not think Richard Hatch was offended at the comment gay ass hat. It was affectionate teasing.

    I did not read the transvestite comment on the other thread so I don't know the context but that word is not a slur, in and of itself. Tranvestites are not transexual. And transexual is not a bad word either; it has been replaced by transgender because it is more accurate.

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    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Yep, I Googled it and then re-Googled it, trying to learn the differences.
    When it comes to cross dresser and transvestite, it seems it's just semantics, as both meet the same definition.

    Differences between using 'gender' or 'sex" though does seem to refer to different aspects: "Gender refers to the psychological/societal aspects of being male or female, sex specifically to the physical aspects."

    Confusing transexuals and transvestites is just ignorance of the terms.

  8. #128
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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    Yep, I Googled it and then re-Googled it, trying to learn the differences.
    When it comes to cross dresser and transvestite, it seems it's just semantics, as both meet the same definition.

    Differences between using 'gender' or 'sex" though does seem to refer to different aspects: "Gender refers to the psychological/societal aspects of being male or female, sex specifically to the physical aspects."

    Confusing transexuals and transvestites is just ignorance of the terms.
    Tranvestites and cross dressers are definately different. Tranvestites cross dress but cross dressers are not transvestites. The internet has a lot of misinformation.

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    FORT Fogey Dragonlady's Avatar
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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by shoepie View Post
    Tranvestites and cross dressers are definately different. Tranvestites cross dress but cross dressers are not transvestites. The internet has a lot of misinformation.
    You know what? I'm still confused.
    I Googled and Googled and got all kinds of different answers. I'll be the first to admit I don't have a clear definition. Just like I'm not clear about what's offensive to certain groups and what isn't, i.e., Lil John's use of "Gay-ass" to describe a hat.
    Think I was just wondering out loud, looking for clarity.

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    Re: 4/03 Show discussion thread **spoilers**

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonlady View Post
    You know what? I'm still confused.
    I Googled and Googled and got all kinds of different answers. I'll be the first to admit I don't have a clear definition. Just like I'm not clear about what's offensive to certain groups and what isn't, i.e., Lil John's use of "Gay-ass" to describe a hat.
    Think I was just wondering out loud, looking for clarity.
    What is offensive is a fuzzy line sometimes. When someone is close to a gay man and teases about a gay ass hat, it is probably loving and witty. If a homophobic man says that in disgust, a slam. It is all about intent for some things.

    Transvestites are usually gay men who dress as women and not always transgender. Straight men can be cross dressers and usually in private but not always.

    If any term his hurled in anger or disgust, even if the word is not a slur in itself, like transvestite, it is wrong.

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