***spoilers**** 5/10 season finalie discussion thread

[spockwhat]

It's amazing to me how people can take what they actually saw with their own eyes and make it something that didn't happen.

We saw Joan on the phone with the (really great) designer arguing over curtains. She decided it wouldn't look good without even really seeing it... and then she insults the guy by telling him she's sending over another designer. He hangs up. He calls back and tells her he quits.
The excuses are tha this wasn't Joan's fault... It must be a set up, due to Annie lying (I LOVE that one) or something.
Annie reacted strongly because she LOVED the design the firm had given her so obviously she would feel screwed by the design firm quitting because Joan refused to work with the (reallly great) designer she got. I'd complain too.

I know we all saw Joan threaten to quit when it looked like Melissa might get fired. (Champagne glass throwing time)
Then, an episode later, when Melissa does get fired, she packs her stuff in a rage and leaves. She threatened and then.... she followed through. For her to deny it, and her fans, is completely irrational.

Joan called Annie white trash, she said she was a Nazi (ok, not totally the first time) but the second and third times... yeah. I know the Joan lovers saw her say that, so how can it be denied? It was a joke? Really... that's stretching it. The woman was banging her fist on the table and breaking champagne glasses.

As someone who wanted Annie to win, I do not deny that she was full of herself, self-centered, and spoke far too often of her own accomplishments. It was irritating as heck. However, that doesn't mean she didn't deserve to win this game if Donald were rationally picking a winner.

[Veruka]

It's amazing to me how people can take what they actually saw with their own eyes and make it something that didn't happen.

We saw Joan on the phone with the (really great) designer arguing over curtains. She decided it wouldn't look good without even really seeing it... and then she insults the guy by telling him she's sending over another designer. He hangs up. He calls back and tells her he quits.
The excuses are tha this wasn't Joan's fault... It must be a set up, due to Annie lying (I LOVE that one) or something.
Annie reacted strongly because she LOVED the design the firm had given her so obviously she would feel screwed by the design firm quitting because Joan refused to work with the (reallly great) designer she got. I'd complain too.

with a lot of phone calls, they were put on speaker so that we could hear what the other person said. Did we get that with the phone call with the designer quitting? No. Just like Annie was pulled into a room without cameras, Joan was told over the phone without audio for the viewer. So we know what we were edited to be told ... and if that included "Production is pullng the designer to throw a wrench into things and see how you react as part of the competition" there's a strong likelihood that it would not be edited in for the viewer to see.

[MsDiva2007]

with a lot of phone calls, they were put on speaker so that we could hear what the other person said. Did we get that with the phone call with the designer quitting? No. Just like Annie was pulled into a room without cameras, Joan was told over the phone without audio for the viewer. So we know what we were edited to be told ... and if that included "Production is pullng the designer to throw a wrench into things and see how you react as part of the competition" there's a strong likelihood that it would not be edited in for the viewer to see.

From David Tutera's interview with Barbara WAWA he quit he said " over his dead body would he work with Joan Rivers again" Joan being the bastion of stupidity that she is preceded to call him a nobody. Joan Honey that Nobody has a show that is airing on tv right now.

[buttahfly]

her skin can't thicken bc it's constantly being stretched like pasta dough.

Exactly... they were her friends and family, whom Joan said nasty things about. BTW, your professional associates can also be your friends, they aren't mutually exclusive.

Point is, Joan said nasty things about Annie and about her friends/family/professional associates. Whomever you may think comprised "her people", Joan said extremely rude and ignorant things about them. She doesn't know these people she slammed, they had nothing to do with the show. She deserved to get flipped off. Bottom line is that Joan behaved extremely poorly to the point where she resorted to name calling when things didn't go her way in the board room. You'd think someone who's been in the business as long as Joan has, and for someone who's in her mid 70's, she'd would have grown a thicker skin and learned to be a bit more graceful in defeat. Annie showed herself to be much more mature than Joan.

[mindy384]

It's amazing to me how people can take what they actually saw with their own eyes and make it something that didn't happen.

We saw Joan on the phone with the (really great) designer arguing over curtains. She decided it wouldn't look good without even really seeing it... and then she insults the guy by telling him she's sending over another designer. He hangs up. He calls back and tells her he quits.
The excuses are tha this wasn't Joan's fault... It must be a set up, due to Annie lying (I LOVE that one) or something.
Annie reacted strongly because she LOVED the design the firm had given her so obviously she would feel screwed by the design firm quitting because Joan refused to work with the (reallly great) designer she got. I'd complain too.

I know we all saw Joan threaten to quit when it looked like Melissa might get fired. (Champagne glass throwing time)
Then, an episode later, when Melissa does get fired, she packs her stuff in a rage and leaves. She threatened and then.... she followed through. For her to deny it, and her fans, is completely irrational.

Joan called Annie white trash, she said she was a Nazi (ok, not totally the first time) but the second and third times... yeah. I know the Joan lovers saw her say that, so how can it be denied? It was a joke? Really... that's stretching it. The woman was banging her fist on the table and breaking champagne glasses.

As someone who wanted Annie to win, I do not deny that she was full of herself, self-centered, and spoke far too often of her own accomplishments. It was irritating as heck. However, that doesn't mean she didn't deserve to win this game if Donald were rationally picking a winner.

I totally agree with everything you said here.

Yes, Annie was a bit cocky at times but she raised the most money and that is what business comes down to--$$. I have to believe that this was a set-up from the get-go...and I imagine that they toyed with a few ideas for the finale, like Joan versus her daughter (that would be interesting) or Joan versus the playmate. In the end, however, they settled on whomever was the most aggravating to Joan to appear in the F2 with her...so sparks would fly and the drama would create a lot of buzz (all the appearances prior to the finale of Melissa/Joan and Annie talking smack about each other) before the finale. I think Joan was destined to win, the producers were just feeling around for who would be her opponent.

If this was not a set-up then Annie would be the clear winner because she raised the most money not just last night but overall...and she won more challenges. And, she never caused a company to quit (BAD business) (which we now have confirmed from the designed assigned to Joan). I think the score card speaks for itself.

I must throw out that I am glad Joan's charity got the extra 250k though--I really think programs for people with illnesses like HIV/AIDS have long been overlooked and I am happy that the organization got some much needed $$ and exposure.

[MsDiva2007]

Mindy, exactly I highly doubt my insurance company would name me Topseller if I sold far less than my Peers,lol. Donald should have just named Joan the Apprentice and saved everyone 3 hours of her insults.

[pointmonger]

Maybe that's the reason (or part of it) behind Trump's bizarre choice. Joan wins and both charities get a more equitable split. Otherwise, Annie's walks away with $700,000 to Joan's $150,000. Hell, as much as I grew to despise Joan, after seeing the woman give her the emotional $50,000, I was happy her charity got the money.

I was a bit thrown off by the choice of story Annie used to represent Refugees International. I didn't quite get emotional over what seemed to be a middle-class woman bemoaning all the paperwork that is required in dealing with government bureaucracies of two countries. I know there's more to it than that, but it didn't really tug at the heartstrings.

Congratulations to Annie for raising $700,000 for her charity, though. Nicely done.

[StageHand]

It's also been said if you look up the board of Directors for Joan's Charity, Blaine Trump is on it......

[Tobi]

Yes, I thought that Annie's charity was more of a lobbying group so the money would go to lobbyists and lawyers or organizers. Joan's was more of a direct need, truer in the sense of a real charity of feeding the hungry and helping the sick and poor. also, she is very hands on with her charity. I like that. She is crazy and scary but apparently she has a heart of gold. Just don't get on her bad side.

[CharmingFrock]

David Tutura on Joan Rivers....

"It quickly became evident that Joan cared more about integrating the corporate sponsors into the event than benefiting the actual charity," reads the statement.

"Joan Rivers unprofessional actions and attempts at creating false drama were unexpected and offensive. Rather than respond to Joan's personal attack and participating in an event where the true focus was clearly forgotten, David graciously stepped away from the situation."

"In 23 years of being in business, I have never left anyone no matter how difficult they are to work with," Tutera told Walters. "Joan Rivers' behavior towards any human being was so unacceptable -- such a monster -- I cannot begin to even explain."

"Joan and Melissa [Rivers] were completely incapable of giving me their insight on how the party should look," Tutera told Walters. "They had zero direction. The rules of the show were, that the producers said to us, that we cannot, me as the person executing the challenge, give the celebrities ideas."

Wow, what a charmer. She gets along with everyone but evil Annie Duke!!!