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Thread: Lenny - Season 5

  1. #61
    Allez les Bleus! Zaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdpch
    I'm sure Lenny understood this aspect of the culture better than Trump, but that's not why he was motivated to say he was Jewish.
    I didn't say that he was motivated to say he was Jewish because he understood the situation better than Trump.

    I said he was motivated to say he was Jewish because he understood the situation better than Trump might have thought Lenny did.
    Last edited by Zaius; 04-03-2006 at 04:14 AM.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaius View Post
    I didn't say that he was motivated to say he was Jewish because he understood the situation better than Trump.

    I said he was motivated to say he was Jewish because he understood the situation better than Trump might have thought Lenny did.
    Yes, and as I explained, I don't believe that was the reason.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdpch View Post
    Yes, and as I explained, I don't believe that was the reason.
    Oh, your last sentence seemed to say that I thought Lenny thought he understood the situation better than Trump.

    Anyhow, I really like Lenny. I'm not sure why Trump was so annoyed with him last episode. He did push to have a voice-over which obviously would have been the best improvement possible for that project. I see him fired within the next two episodes.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crede View Post
    Yeah, you've got a point. It was kind of crude for him to try to use his nonobservance of his religion as a leverage against the other two guys. Two things wrong with this tactic, I think

    1. It's insensitive and non-PC. Maybe he just hates anything PC. People are known to use sensitivity/PC stuff to gain leverage against their competitors and keep them down.

    2. It was very transparent that he was trying to use religion as a leverage.

    Funny how PC and non-PC can both be used and abused in twisted ways for personal advantage.
    My take is that Lenny actually believed what he was saying. He wasn't just doing it for tactical advantage (although it could be used that way); he actually did think less of those guys and believed they were trying to cut out of the task by leveraging their Jewish heritage.

    I think that's my biggest impression of Lenny. This is not a put-on for the show, or some sort of strategy. He's simply a very direct, down-to-earth, pragmatic, insensitive sort of guy -- so pragmatic and realistic that he doesn't possess a lot of imagination.

    (That's not meant as a cut, merely as description. "Common" sense, not creativity, is his strong suit.)

  5. #65
    skeptic rdpch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaius View Post
    Oh, your last sentence seemed to say that I thought Lenny thought he understood the situation better than Trump.

    Anyhow, I really like Lenny. I'm not sure why Trump was so annoyed with him last episode. He did push to have a voice-over which obviously would have been the best improvement possible for that project. I see him fired within the next two episodes.
    My apologies, I didn't even intend to send that short sentence--I shouldn't half-complete thoughts so late at night and then unthinkingly press submit.

    Here's the point I want to make: it would be ironic if Lenny said he was Jewish to signal to Trump that he knew more about the situation than Trump thought he did, because in fact the understanding he reflected was (for lack of a better term) very non-Jewish. That is, as a Jew Lenny ought to understand the culture well enough to know that for many religiously observant Jews the high holidays are sacred, but for culturally identified Jews (like Lenny and myself) the high holidays are a cultural but not a sacred event. Lenny was effectively placing himself into the same group with Lee and Dan in Trump's eyes, as a way to validate his criticism, but he gave what I consider an outsider's perspective.

    I should add that I like him too, although I think he's better at criticism than he is at being creative, constructive, or cooperative. As I said earlier, he's fun to watch but I wouldn't want to work with him.
    Last edited by rdpch; 04-03-2006 at 02:46 PM.
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  6. #66
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    [QUOTE=rdpch;1850250]Here's the point I want to make: it would be ironic if Lenny said he was Jewish to signal to Trump that he knew more about the situation than Trump thought he did...[quote]

    That was the way I read what he said -- he was trying to validate his criticism by identifying himself with Lee and Dan, the target of his attacks. A pretty effective strategy, too...

    Lenny was effectively placing himself into the same group with Lee and Dan in Trump's eyes, as a way to validate his criticism, but he gave what I consider an outsider's perspective.
    Thanks for the insight. I know there's a difference, since one can be Jewish either from a cultural or religious perspective (or both), but that aspect had snuck by me.

    I should add that I like him too, although I think he's better at criticism than he is at being creative, constructive, or cooperative. As I said earlier, he's fun to watch but I wouldn't want to work with him.
    No argument on any of this, that's exactly how I feel. The guy is great for shaking things up and challenging misplaced assumptions, and I even like him as a person... but he doesn't really know how to do it in moderation, without derailing the team efforts.

  7. #67
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    Regarding the Lee/Dan/Lenny Jewish thing: We still don't know if all those guys worked on that one Saturday or not. IF they did, then Lenny's criticism is somewhat validated.

    Since the TV show only allows us to see one heavily edited hour of what goes on each week, we'll probably never know what happened the rest of the time. (Unless someone says something after this season is over.)

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by gracie727 View Post
    Regarding the Lee/Dan/Lenny Jewish thing: We still don't know if all those guys worked on that one Saturday or not. IF they did, then Lenny's criticism is somewhat validated.

    Since the TV show only allows us to see one heavily edited hour of what goes on each week, we'll probably never know what happened the rest of the time. (Unless someone says something after this season is over.)
    Again, it doesn't matter whether they worked on Saturday. Observing the high holidays is a bigger deal to a larger proportion of Jews than observing the Sabbath. As I've explained earlier, there are more varied levels of observance than the simple religious vs. cultural dichotomy I mentioned in my last post. The only smoking gun or gotcha moment you might find in extra footage that would validate Lenny's criticism is if Lee and Dan sneaked off for the day to rent motorcycles or to go hear music in a club or some other action that went against observance of the holiday.
    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

  9. #69
    FORT Fogey
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdpch View Post
    Again, it doesn't matter whether they worked on Saturday. Observing the high holidays is a bigger deal to a larger proportion of Jews than observing the Sabbath. As I've explained earlier, there are more varied levels of observance than the simple religious vs. cultural dichotomy I mentioned in my last post. The only smoking gun or gotcha moment you might find in extra footage that would validate Lenny's criticism is if Lee and Dan sneaked off for the day to rent motorcycles or to go hear music in a club or some other action that went against observance of the holiday.
    Actually, it would have validated Lenny's remarks if there was footage showing Lee and Dan plotting to take the day off to get out of working so they wouldn't be eliminated.

    Anyway, I still say there is a lot that they don't show us.

  10. #70
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    The thing I don't get is aren't these challenges more than one day? Yom Kippur would have only been one 24 hr period. Where was Lee the rest of the time? Something doesn't add up IMHO.

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