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Thread: Lee - Season 5

  1. #31
    FORT Fan Fortunato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crede View Post
    I don't know exactly why, but I feel that he is sincere with his religion.
    I'm with you on that one.

    Lee simply isn't "slimy." It doesn't fit the character we've seen, overall.
    1. In the first episode, he was the only one who refused to sit around and diss Summer behind her back, when it would have been very easy and even profitable to do so. He simply felt it was demeaning to do so, despite the fact that the whole group was in on it. How "unpolitical" can you get?
    2. Same episode, Tarek indirectly threatened Lee with the boardroom if he said anything negative about Tarek's performance; Lee refused to be the politician, politely gave his opinion of Tarek's work when Trump asked... and Tarek pulled him into the boardroom, where Lee was quickly exonerated and Tarek mocked by Trump. Again, still not a great "political" move by Lee.
    3. As far as this goes, I found Lee's answer to the "religion" card pretty mature. I'm not sure how you could BETTER resolve the issue. He felt terrible about not being with the team, yet he felt that he had to honor God / his faith by not working those days, and he even said he was willing to be fired because of it, if the team decided it was the best thing to do. He refused to compromise his spirituality, but he also refused to make others put up with it and instead threw himself on their mercy, and was willing to abide by their decision.

    Throughout the show, Lee has been pretty laid-back, soft-spoken, unoffensive, and non-divisive. The guy's 22. He's the youngest candidate, one of the youngest ever. He shows a cool and gentle candor that candidates ten years his senior haven't shown.

    I think Trump's comments about Lee being a "politician" weren't supposed to connotate the slimy sort. I'd say Lee is diplomatic, but I think he's been anything BUT Machiavellan in his approach.

    Anyway, you might still disagree with me, and I might have not made the same choices Lee did if I had been in his shoes, but I think he has established his moral quality to be higher than some people are giving him credit for.

  2. #32
    FORT Fan Crede's Avatar
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    He is making it harder for Trump to choose him as the apprentice, though. It will still strike some as unfair that he got exemption twice just because he missed the tasks. That is why I don't know why Trump couldn't have just scheduled the tasks to avoid days that any of the candidates had no choice but to take off.

  3. #33
    daydream believer oneTVslave's Avatar
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    You know, this whole religion thing could have been avoided if Trump had seen fit to do so. Yom Kippur is the holiest day of the year for practicing Jews. How hard would it have been to give all the contestants a day off from tasks to sight-see or do whatever they want, thus enabling Lee and anyone else to observe the holiday? I am sure that they wouldn't have expected everyone to work on Christmas Day if it had fallen in the middle of the shooting...
    Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.
    - Albert Einstein

  4. #34
    FORT Fogey aname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneTVslave View Post
    You know, this whole religion thing could have been avoided if Trump had seen fit to do so. Yom Kippur is the holiest day of the year for practicing Jews. How hard would it have been to give all the contestants a day off from tasks to sight-see or do whatever they want, thus enabling Lee and anyone else to observe the holiday? I am sure that they wouldn't have expected everyone to work on Christmas Day if it had fallen in the middle of the shooting...

    Very good point - I absolutely agree.

    However, I still am not impressed by Lee. Having been gone for two of the tasks, he really hasn't had a chance to show his stuff - either positive or negative. I am reserving judgement for now, but there is something off-putting about him that I can't quite put my finger on. Let's just say, I wouldn't trust him if he were on my team.

  5. #35
    FORT Fan shaynas_mom's Avatar
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    Real hard for me to stomach the "religion card" posts above, but I'll just retort by wondering what those two posters would do if they were in the same situation on Christmas and Easter. A little education can go a long way, if you let it.

    Lee is true to himself, and that's where it all starts.

  6. #36
    from sky to fire fireflyer's Avatar
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    I like Lee. I forgot 'til I read some of these posts that he was the guy who took all the holiday time off. Hmmm.

    But based on tonight's 2 episodes, I really liked Lee more than any of the others.

    The pizza task: I don't think he argued as well as what Jennifer Massey could have, but if he could've incorporated better debate skills he'd have been unquestionably the king of the boardroom. He was right on nearly everything. And he had a lot of substance in his rant, as opposed to the empty condescension of the girl who took him to the boardroom. (Sorry, her name escapes me.)

    Lee's intuition on pricing was better.
    His idea of monopolizing the supply was better.
    His idea of dealing in bulk was better. Had he not been handicapped by less-skilled people, I think his ideas would've conquered.

    I'm looking at tonight as an isolated incident because I can't remember his past tasks. I don't remember why he was so loyal to Lenny, and I think that was kinda dumb considering how inept Lenny appeared the last few weeks. I admire loyalty, but in a business situation I would like it to be founded on something of substance.
    ie. I felt like Lee sat down with a pen & paper to make a list of anything that would defend Lenny, rather than make a list of the things relevant to the task... if Lenny was truly worth defending, the list would've naturally supported Lenny, rather than engineered to do that.

  7. #37
    FORT Fan Crede's Avatar
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    I like Lee a lot also. He has good concepts, is logical, makes sense.

    I think he likes Lenny for Lenny's common sense. Lee knows enough not to take it personally with someone like Lenny when Lenny criticized him for taking a holiday off. Also, when Lenny told him on the first task to go out and just try to get as many people to text message as possible, Lee knew it made sense and he didn't take it personally. He understands people and read Lenny correctly, so trusted Lenny.

    OTOH, Leslie was a little too thick NOT to take personally Lee's criticism of her pricing on this sandwich task. Taking things personally or misascribing Lee's criticism for ulterior motives, I think she failed to see the logic in Lee's idea, and that's why she lost. I have that problem, too, sometimes. It's so much easier to see things from a far-away vantage point than when you are immersed in a situation... hard to be objective. Anyway, wandering off the point.

  8. #38
    from sky to fire fireflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shaynas_mom View Post
    wondering what those two posters would do if they were in the same situation on Christmas and Easter.
    I've had to work 10-hr shifts on Christmas 2 years in-a-row before.
    It sucked.
    Even as workaholic, and as unemotionally-UNconnected from familly as I am, it still sucked to miss part of that time with them.

    On the other hand, if I was on television vying for a job with a TOP professional in my arena, I would unquestionably postpone my Christmas celebration.

    Our grown family has done that several times. In fact, most years since 1995. Christmas is the day the whole family can gather to celebrate the birth. We haven't been able to do it on the 25th because of so many external families' obligations, but our siblings assign a day that we can gather together, and we celebrate then. I'm wondering why Lee's family didn't do that? The meaning isn't in the DATE, right?

    The date doesn't define the substance of a person. For you God-fearin' folks like me, celebrating on the 26th does not a sinner make.

    So I don't understand Lee's holiday disconnect.

    I like his intuition,
    I like his loyalty,
    I dislike that his loyalty seemed unfounded,
    I question his priorities when given the biggest professional opportunity of his life.

  9. #39
    FORT Fan Crede's Avatar
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    It's a tough decision for Lee. I am not too familiar with the rules of Orthodox Jews... maybe it's not as flexible for them what days they take off. One of my college suitemates was pretty darn strict on some Jewish rules though, especially about holidays and some things she was allowed to do at certain times in the day.

    I also don't understand why he doesn't wear a yarmulke if he is so orthodox. Are there different degrees of orthodoxy in the Jewish religion? Guess I need to read up on it.

  10. #40
    from sky to fire fireflyer's Avatar
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    OK your whole post #31 was good.

    One other thing about Lee. It's soooo hard to overcome the natural comparison between him and Andy from Season 2 (or was it 3?) But Lee seems to be grounded more on business substance, where Andy was grounded more on perserverance and enthusiasm.

    IMO that makes Lee better than Andy.

    Trump ended up hiring Andy.

    Andy was "the debate champion", and Andy focused on obvious arguments to make his cases. Lee seemed to forfeit some obvious arguments that a better debater would've used to his advantage. But in the end, with Lee being more "right" (in my mind), I wonder if Trump will agree and will reward Lee with a position similar to Andy's?

    (I don't think Lee will win. But I do think he's got better business sense than Andy, therefore he should get a job with Trump even if he was never a debate champion.)

    I think Trump was using his brain tonight when he retained Lee.

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