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Thread: Only 2 women left. Is sexism at work?

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    FORT Fanatic LalahLand's Avatar
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    Only 2 women left. Is sexism at work?

    I just had to say something about this! How ironic it is that the women, who were clearly going to continue beating the men over and over again were it not for the merge, are now less than half of the remaining contestants. Does anyone think sexism is playing a role in all this? I happen to think that the women were way more qualified than the men.

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    FORT Fan justvisiting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LalahLand
    I just had to say something about this! How ironic it is that the women, who were clearly going to continue beating the men over and over again were it not for the merge, are now less than half of the remaining contestants. Does anyone think sexism is playing a role in all this? I happen to think that the women were way more qualified than the men.
    As a full team, the women were winning. When they merged (by necessity to even out the numbers) som eof the teams that some of the women were on started losing. Donald Trump himself said this recently, and he said he wasn't sure why. However, by the same token, some of the teams that some of the women were on kept winning. Amy has never been on a losing team.

    I'm not sure that the women would have kept beating the men, other than it would be easier for, say, 8 women to beat 3 or 4 men at the same task. Eight women could also wash and dry more dishes than four men, simply because of numbers.

    I do not think each of the women was/is more qualified than each of the men. For example, I think Amy is more qualified than Sam, but I don't think Ereka or Tammy or Omarosa are/were more qualified than Troy or Bill but they might be more qualified than Bowie or David.

    Four men were fired in a row, no one (especially no women) complained about sexism THEN. When I look at qualifications for that job I look at the individual, their performance, skills, personality, and background. I don't think Tammy at 36 was more qualified than Jessie at 21.

    So, to answer your question, No, I don't think sexism is a factor in the competition anymore than ageism or racism - and No, I don't think Trump is firing people based on their gender.

    By the way, I'm female.
    Last edited by justvisiting; 03-15-2004 at 12:06 AM.

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    Anachronism before Noon Cat Bowling Champion Anemic Dog's Avatar
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    Out of all the people fired, I've yet to see any who I thought were capable of running anything more complicated than a lemonade stand.

    It sucks that people always assume there's an -ism at work.
    Passing over to the Dark Side

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    C'mon Without Cmon Within QuinntheEskimo's Avatar
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    especially if it's a Priapism!

    the game has played out perfectly so far- the most deserving bootees have gone at about the time they should have (as JustVisiting pointed out based on their qualifications and abilities)

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    FORT Fan Trainwreck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justvisiting
    Four men were fired in a row, no one (especially no women) complained about sexism THEN.
    Of course no one complained that it was sexism in the first four episodes because the women's team trounced the men's team based on (mostly) objective criteria. The women had better quantifiable (except the ad) results. In the boardroom, Trump's firing decision was between three men, not a mixed group. The perceived differences in contribution based on gender weren't a factor until the merge. After the merge, the contributions of men vs women within a team are judged subjectively.

    It certainly seems suspicious to me that there are only two women left after such a dominating start and that the turnabout occurred once the contributions are judged subjectively.

    For a little while (episodes 5 , 6) the women were contributing to the reduction in their numbers by choosing to bring other women to the board room with them. But then Ereka brought Bill and Nick with her and got fired even though Nick was being The Mole and practically sabotaging the team. Troy and Kwame have remained loyal to each other and not brought the other to the boardroom, but Trump criticized Ereka for basing their choices of who to bring based on friendship/loyalty. I thought the elimination of Ereka (6 wins, lead 1W1L) before some of the guys was questionable.

    Trump has made various comments that lead me to believe that he is personally pulling for the guys.

    Although I think there is a bias, I also recognize that the "sample size" is way too small to be able to reach any conclusions. The sample size is so small that all of this could be explained by the fact that Amy (10 wins, lead 1W, at least 2 great ideas, picked 2) is the undefeated superstar of the show and the only thing that matters is that a player be on her team. (Unfortunately, I didn't see Trump give her credit for this, but rather advise Nick not to make her look too good.) Even if Amy loses the rest of the challenges she'll still have more wins than any of the guys, right?

    Because Bill (4 wins, lead 2W) seems like an able guy and Troy (2 wins, lead 1W 2L, at least 2 great ideas) has some great ideas I'll reserve my judgement on the sexism question to the end of the show. I'm assuming it doesn't matter who comes in sixth versus seventh. It's all about who wins, right?
    Bring it!

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    FORT Fan justvisiting's Avatar
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    So if a man wins, then Trump is sexist and if a woman wins he's not? LOL!

    Funny, I could have sworn his VP Carolyn was female. Or, after 10 years is she just a "token"?


    The female Projects Managers have brought other females in to face firings.
    PM Kristi brought Omarosa and Jessie to face the firing squad but then ended up getting fired herself.
    PM Omarosa brought Heidi and Jessie into th board room to face firing - Jsssie was fired.
    PM Katrina brought Bill and Tammy into the boardroom and fingered Tammy to be fired.

    PM Ereka protected her friend Kristina and brought 2 men to face firing, and ALSO ended up getting fired herself.
    Last edited by justvisiting; 03-15-2004 at 02:54 AM.

  7. #7
    The race is back! John's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LalahLand
    Does anyone think sexism is playing a role in all this?
    No.

  8. #8
    Fool... but no pity. Krom's Avatar
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    Only 2 women left. Is sexism at work?
    If so, perhaps only in the casting. It's no different than the charges that the show is racist because Omarosa was a joke. They don't have to change these folks, manipulate them much beyond the reality, or fire them according to some plan, because they picked them for the very reason that a lot of them really and truly suck. It might only be "sexist" in that they might have cast a slightly greater number of women who sucked. But the firings have largely seemed fair and square to me.

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    Evil Slash Crazy Miss Filangi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justvisiting
    I do not think each of the women was/is more qualified than each of the men. For example, I think Amy is more qualified than Sam, but I don't think Ereka or Tammy or Omarosa are/were more qualified than Troy or Bill but they might be more qualified than Bowie or David.
    Exactly.

    Unlike Survivor, people are fired for specific reasons. In some cases, I didn't really agree with it, but I could always understand the reasoning. Between Heidi and Troy, there was more reason to get rid of Heidi.

    As far as those that remain, I personally think that everyone, with the exception of Katrina, would be a deserving winner. Regardless of gender.
    If you go through a lot of hammers each month, I don't think it necessarily means you're a hard worker.
    It may just mean that you have a lot to learn about proper hammer maintenance.


  10. #10
    FORT Fanatic LalahLand's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainwreck
    Of course no one complained that it was sexism in the first four episodes because the women's team trounced the men's team based on (mostly) objective criteria. The women had better quantifiable (except the ad) results. In the boardroom, Trump's firing decision was between three men, not a mixed group. The perceived differences in contribution based on gender weren't a factor until the merge. After the merge, the contributions of men vs women within a team are judged subjectively.

    It certainly seems suspicious to me that there are only two women left after such a dominating start and that the turnabout occurred once the contributions are judged subjectively.

    For a little while (episodes 5 , 6) the women were contributing to the reduction in their numbers by choosing to bring other women to the board room with them. But then Ereka brought Bill and Nick with her and got fired even though Nick was being The Mole and practically sabotaging the team. Troy and Kwame have remained loyal to each other and not brought the other to the boardroom, but Trump criticized Ereka for basing their choices of who to bring based on friendship/loyalty. I thought the elimination of Ereka (6 wins, lead 1W1L) before some of the guys was questionable.

    Trump has made various comments that lead me to believe that he is personally pulling for the guys.

    Although I think there is a bias, I also recognize that the "sample size" is way too small to be able to reach any conclusions. The sample size is so small that all of this could be explained by the fact that Amy (10 wins, lead 1W, at least 2 great ideas, picked 2) is the undefeated superstar of the show and the only thing that matters is that a player be on her team. (Unfortunately, I didn't see Trump give her credit for this, but rather advise Nick not to make her look too good.) Even if Amy loses the rest of the challenges she'll still have more wins than any of the guys, right?

    Because Bill (4 wins, lead 2W) seems like an able guy and Troy (2 wins, lead 1W 2L, at least 2 great ideas) has some great ideas I'll reserve my judgement on the sexism question to the end of the show. I'm assuming it doesn't matter who comes in sixth versus seventh. It's all about who wins, right?


    As a psychology major, with a leaning towards social psychology, I am fascinated by these issues, but even moreso with our reactions to these issues. The interesting thing about sexism is that most of us are so used to it that we don't even notice! I didn't realize just how pervasive sexism was in our society until I took a Human Rights course a few years back.

    Edited to add: Females themselves are also major contributors to sexism, usually in an effort to protect their own positions. Note Carolyn's reaction in the boardroom to the men vs. women.
    Last edited by LalahLand; 03-15-2004 at 10:53 AM.

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