****SPOILERS***** 5/3 show discussion thread

[Rattus]

Originally Posted by ranger1rg

i think joan's quite the player, too -- and she's not obnoxious and ego-driven.

Sorry, but referring to someone as Hitler is not obnoxious? Referring to one's self as the "world's greatest comic icon" is not ego-driven? Joan is, is, is...gah, I can't settle on the single pejorative that describes the harridan best.

[Google]

 

[KeepItReal]

I've decided-while both finalists have annoyed me, I must in the end still root for annie. If Joan wins Me-Me wins, and I just can't have that happen!

[steppemaster]

Originally Posted by Krom

Hard to say. She DOES after all have two undergrad degrees from Columbia and got within a month of having her PhD. For most of us that would be pretty intellectual. Then again, most of us don't have Richard Lederer for a father. So you could be right in the end.

Krom--hi. Let me explain what I mean. As someone with more than one degree myself and with friends, relatives etc in a similar situation--I don't think that someone with multiple degrees is automatically an intellectual.

IMO an intellectual is a person who engages in intellectual pursuits--like Annie's family apparently does (I'm not acquainted with the Lederer
Family's accomplishments.)

It does seem from what I've read that they engage in intellectual pursuits--her dad writes books, is a professor etc.

But one can't by any stretch describe being a professional gambler as an "intellectual pursuit."


Annie may be intelligent and crafty and experienced in manipulating the people she is playing in a game with--but engaged in intellectual pursuits she's not.

[spockwhat]

I thought it was really great to see Brande and Annie finally be able to relax and enjoy working together on the task last night. They were having a great self-disparaging time over working through that jingle. Take note, Melissa, they actually GET ALONG... maybe their having fun together wasn't something put on to tick you off, but because they actually LIKE each other.

Joan. I love how hard she is willing to work to get something done in tasks. I HATE how entitled, self-serving, wishy-washy, spoiled, nasty, ugly, and mean she can be. Annie plays the game, and keeps the personal stuff between her and the camera. Joan dashes around badmouthing everyone, and then expects them to hand her the game... and if they don't, they are evil. Just unbelievable how nasty she is really.

Annie. Hate how she won't shut up when she does well. Ok, we aren't stupid, Annie, we can see it for ourselves. I LOVE how she's calm, smart, and knows what the game is about. While Joan is busting her ass trying to get work done, Annie is playing everyone around her, and is amazed that they don't know exactly what she's doing. Joan can see it, but doesn't know how to fight it. Tough luck, Joan.

Last year, everyone wanted Trace to win and most people HATED Piers... there were so many threats about never watching this show again if Piers won. Yet, here we are... page 35 and going strong. The Donald may be a perverted ass, but he knows what he does.

[anders332]

Originally Posted by KeepItReal

I've decided-while both finalists have annoyed me, I must in the end still root for annie. If Joan wins Me-Me wins, and I just can't have that happen!

they should let the audience vote......

It's hard to say who he will actually hire - Annie is definitely the better player, but he LOVES Joan (especially witnessed by his allowing her return after quitting)

[Veruka]

Originally Posted by Rattus

Sorry, but referring to someone as Hitler is not obnoxious? Referring to one's self as the "world's greatest comic icon" is not ego-driven? Joan is, is, is...gah, I can't settle on the single pejorative that describes the harridan best.

I would agree that Joan is arrogant - I don't think you can have the success that she has had in the entertainment industry without being arrogant. when your in the business of selling yourself as a product, you've got to have quite a bit of confidence in yourself/your product or else you will fail. That said, I think that Joan's level of arrogance and Annie's level of arrogance are quite different. I personally have an easier time tolerating Joan's kind.

Joan knows what she does well, and believes that she can do those things better than most. But, when it comes to playing on a team, she can show focus and appreciation towards team mates -- and even competitors. When Clint performed his jingle, she celebrated his success. Last week when there was tension between Clint and Jesse, her focus was on calming things down between the two of them as it was best for the team. All in all, Joan will boast about her successes and her strength, but she does not view the successes of others as a threat to her.

Annie on the other hand has a tendency to extend her confidence in herself into a need to cut others down to advance herself. When her team does well, she's quite outspoken in making sure everyone knows what success SHE had, rather than being focused on the team. I think she's also been less willing to acknowledge the strengths and successes of others - it's almost as if she'd be lessening herself if she acknowledged their success.

All this said, yes, I recognize that Joan has engaged in a lot of namecalling, which is obviously cutting people down too. The difference - and this is purely a gut instinct - is that she does it impulsively sometimes filling silence by takling trash, while Annie honestly thinks and believes what she says.

[spockwhat]

Originally Posted by Veruka

Joan knows what she does well, and believes that she can do those things better than most. But, when it comes to playing on a team, she can show focus and appreciation towards team mates -- and even competitors. When Clint performed his jingle, she celebrated his success. Last week when there was tension between Clint and Jesse, her focus was on calming things down between the two of them as it was best for the team. All in all, Joan will boast about her successes and her strength, but she does not view the successes of others as a threat to her.

She PUT UP with Clint's jingle. She liked it at first but then she thought the jingle was too slow, (she is correct on that) and she then she wanted to add the cluck, cluck, cluck. Splash. She held the sign up in front of HER FACE as she walked by in the presentation because she was ticked at Clint... sour grapes.
Her appreciation of teammates and competitors has led to some REALLY nasty statements. The things she said about Clint, the complaining to that guy last week that Jesse was 'playing the game', the things she has said about Brande (whatever did Brande do to deserve it???) her horrible classless statements towards Annie.

Annie on the other hand has a tendency to extend her confidence in herself into a need to cut others down to advance herself. When her team does well, she's quite outspoken in making sure everyone knows what success SHE had, rather than being focused on the team. I think she's also been less willing to acknowledge the strengths and successes of others - it's almost as if she'd be lessening herself if she acknowledged their success.

I agree she needs to shut up about herself.
That said, I've seen her give TONS of credit to her teammates... Melissa she gave to even though Melissa was being horrible to her, Brande (pointing to her while they were playing the 30 second spot... "Brande did that"), saying she felt Brande would do great on her own... she even gave a lot of credit to Joan last night by saying that she admires how well Joan has done and how hard she works.

All this said, yes, I recognize that Joan has engaged in a lot of namecalling, which is obviously cutting people down too. The difference - and this is purely a gut instinct - is that she does it impulsively sometimes filling silence by takling trash, while Annie honestly thinks and believes what she says.

So, you don't think she meant it when she called Brande a dumb blonde? Or Annie, Hitler? Or the nasty things she said about Clint?
I think this woman thinks that when she is angry, she can say whatever the heck she wants to say because she's angry. If that is what anyone thinks, they are going to end up hurting a lot of people around them, and make themselves plenty of enemies through life.

[Rattus]

Originally Posted by Veruka

All this said, yes, I recognize that Joan has engaged in a lot of namecalling, which is obviously cutting people down too. The difference - and this is purely a gut instinct - is that she does it impulsively sometimes filling silence by takling trash, while Annie honestly thinks and believes what she says.

If she is actually using vitriol as a silence filler, then I have even less respect for her than I did before. And honestly, I don't care how hard she's worked to get where she is. To use her own point of reference, Hitler worked hard to get where he got as well.

[shoepie]

I have enjoyed the show and this is a predictable but perfect finale duo.

I like different things about both women so it doesn't matter to me who wins; it is more the journey and what transpires during the finale that interests me. I do think Annie will take this.

When Joan discussed her contacts not coming through with money on a previous show something was up. I don't think she is saving them. The evasive and brief conversation with Trump eluded to something more. Melissa chimed in with, "I think this is better in a private conversation." Since Trump knew what contacts she was referring to and Joan implied that he knew the reason perhaps they have an aversion to Trump and his reality venture or to him in general. There is definately a story here.

It appeared that Trump was considering Jesse if he would involve Sandra and her Hollywood friends. He was after a star studded finale and viewers who had not watched the show all season tuning in to star gaze. It is all about the ratings and the show being renewed for Donald. And nothing wrong with that either. That is the goal of any TV show.

[anders332]

I completely agree that the F2 were selected to bring in the biggest names in the end, but I'm not quite sure what names either of them can bring in. Trace had Ronnie Milsap (wasn't it?) Piers had Simon Cowell......

I'm not a poker buff so I don't know who the bigwig is but could it be Phil Helmuth, and will Annie be able to bring him in? Who's Joan's big name?? Whoever she and Trump were referencing I"m sure.