Rebecca - Page 4

Dogbat · 10-10-2005, 01:41 PM

Rebecca was the reason the task failed. True, the planner did an inexcusable job but where was the PM when her plan was made? Who would have thought an event planner would serve a sheet cake and punch? Well history has shown it is necessary for all PM's to check on tasks they delegate.

Rebecca also okayed stupid technology. A high definition TV is a big boy toy for those who can afford it. When all is said and done they are just TV's with better pictures on the few channels that offer high def viewing, and there are not many of them. Oh, and do the set up proceedure before people arrive!

Trumps lawyers may have had more to do with keeping Rebecca than anything else. That reward was stupid on several levels.

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natashapierre · 10-10-2005, 03:04 PM

[quote=divaexpatriate]Because she CAN'T say that.

Because being a good friend is not a valid reason for keeping someone in The Apprentice! [QUOTE}

Not even after The Donald's paean to loyalty that he delivered? ... He *loved* her loyalty, he said ... Are you saying that he only likes you to be loyal to somebody because they're intelligent, but not because they step up to be helpful , work hard for you, support you when you're down, and so on? ... That distinction doesn't make sense to me (which doesn't mean that it may not be true, of course, Trump being as wacky as he is!) Aren't those qualities valuable in business, too? It seems to me that anybody who actually valued loyalty would also value those qualities?

[quote]
It shows her logical character: a stark contrast to emotional, hysterical Jennifer W. She could have said something like "I bake for my grandmother & her elderly friends often and they enjoy cake the most as a dessert over things like cookies, which are harder to chew", showing that she logically considered what foods to have available. Instead, she said "I chose cake because my grandmother likes cake"... lol! The same thing can be phrased differently and all of a sudden it's turned into a valid argument!

Becky understands that revealing her true feelings on why she didn't bring in Toral would only succeed in making her look emotional and biased. Instead, she tried to come up with a rational and objective reason for not bringing her in: namely, Toral's intellectual abilities & corporate experience. She may have been a bit dramatic in her delivery of that reason (if you don’t choose Toral, we won’t have a female apprentice!), but her basic argument was valid and objective. She also emphasized "integrity" and "loyalty"- buzz words which back up her logical argument with a semblance of emotion and heart... without actually turning her argument -into- an emotional argument. [quote]

I completely agree about Jen W and the distinction between her idiot responses and Rebecca's.

Where we part ways is only in the "valid and objective" issue on Rebecca's argument. I agree that she may have figured it was expedient. ... I just don't think that makes is "valid" or "objective." Where's the evidence for Toral's supposed superiority?

Bottom line for me, I think -- I just don't have a lot of respect for people whose main strength seems to be glib arguing in tthe boardroom, successful as they may be on the show because of it. So if she was doing what you say, I agree that it was fast thinking on her feet. That quality just doesn't impress me very much, when it's not backed up by other attributes that I don't see in her.... Where was she when all the really bad decisions were being made about how to run their expo, for example?

On the other hand, if Rebecca really believes that Toral is the only worthy one, based on what looks to me like nothing more than the fact she went to Penn, then it's her judgment I question.... She said that with such fervor, that I felt as if she believed it, though the scenario you lay out also seems quite plausible.

Jessica1975 · 10-10-2005, 04:02 PM

First, let me say, kudos to Rebecca for choosing a nice basic black cast to coordinate with her outfits.

Second. I think she took a big risk bringing both Jens into the boardroom. It was a move just shy of bringing in only one other person. I'm glad she didn't because honestly, I'm quite sick of the whole "Can I bring just one person in, Donald" businness. What I wonder is if Rebecca pointed out Jen M's reliance on her looks to get them a better rating and then it was edited out. That bit where Jen M was all, "Lets do push ups in small clothes b/c we'll get better marks" was terribly obnoxious to me and Caroline noticed the behavior. It would have been worth mentioning.

Third, the loyalty thing. It doesn't much matter what we think of her move. She played a hand that took guts and the opinion that mattered liked it. The Donald thought it should good character and strength and she explained herself in a manner which was clear but not challenging to TD.
Where the women are concerned, Rebecca is still way up there on my list of girls who'll go the distance.

aname · 10-10-2005, 04:20 PM

She got a pass from The Donald because she is pretty, but as a PM is way too bossy and delegated without keeping a close enough tab on what was actually going on. She is gutsy, strong, and sticks to her guns . . but she causes too much friction with the other women. Because of her personality, she is not a good leader - a tough manager true, but not a leader who people want to follow.

Jessica1975 · 10-10-2005, 05:12 PM

Just because she doesn't waste her time trying to get people "jazzed" (which shows that they aren't self motivated which is a VERY poor quality) doesn't mean she's not a good leader. And we saw her act as PM for what 10 minutes? I'm sure she kept tabs, but a good leader expects the best from her team. A good leader takes what is presented to him/her as each individuals strengths and then allows them to work to those strengths. Jenn W said she had experience in event planning. So Rebecca let her take that aspect. Jenn W. should be capable enough to set up an event like a professional, and shouldn't need someone to hold her hand throughout the process.

I also think it shows a lot about Rebecca that she is keeping the person she sees as her biggest competition. That shows character.

Dogbat · 10-11-2005, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessica1975

I also think it shows a lot about Rebecca that she is keeping the person she sees as her biggest competition. That shows character.

And her only friend. There is wisdom in keeping an ally that is not necessarily noble.

natashapierre · 10-11-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jessica1975

Just because she doesn't waste her time trying to get people "jazzed" (which shows that they aren't self motivated which is a VERY poor quality) .

I agree that the self-professed lack of motivation of the blondes in that Kristi-in-Best Buy clip says really bad things about them... However, I think it really is the job of the leader to get people jazzed, isn't it? ...

For example, it seems to me that Randall must have put some effort into getting the guys jazzed with that "connecting the generations" project, and the guys seem to be having pep rallies and such now, which apparently is working for them....

So far, the women's team leaders -- not just Rebecca-- have seemed to skip this aspect of management, and it's worked out okay when somebody was motivated on their own to do a really good job, as Alla obviously was with the video. ... But you can't really count on others' motivation, as I think their overall results may show...

As a boss, I've found that a lot of my job is helping people channel their motivation into the current project....finding ways to ensure they're jazzed about it. And while there are certainly lots of other leadership qualities that Rebecca and some of the other women may have, if they really do ignore this one, which they appear to, then I think the guys probably have a very big advantage.

Geea7 · 10-11-2005, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by divaexpatriate

Because she CAN'T say that.

Because being a good friend is not a valid reason for keeping someone in The Apprentice!

Becky is no Jennifer W (Ms. "my grandmother likes cookies so that's why I made cookies"). She understands which arguments are valid and which arguments are weak and basically pointless.

Remember how she kind of skirted around the issue of why she dragged Jennifer M in ? She gave some BS reason about Jennifer not following directions, getting off topic, etc. BUT, I don't think her decision to bring Jennifer in was totally random, like others have said. It really seemed like she was being cautious and really choosing her words carefully.

Becky understands that revealing her true feelings on why she didn't bring in Toral would only succeed in making her look emotional and biased. Instead, she tried to come up with a rational and objective reason for not bringing her in: namely, Toral's intellectual abilities & corporate experience. She may have been a bit dramatic in her delivery of that reason (if you don’t choose Toral, we won’t have a female apprentice!), but her basic argument was valid and objective. She also emphasized "integrity" and "loyalty"- buzz words which back up her logical argument with a semblance of emotion and heart... without actually turning her argument -into- an emotional argument.

I mean, if you look too closely at the "integrity"/"loyalty" angle of her argument... it really doesn't make a great deal of sense, when applied to her logical argument. lol.. Does she believe in Toral THAT much that bringing her in would go against her best judgment about who is suited to be The Apprentice ? If Toral hadn't been the only one who cared about her ankle and went with her to the clinic, would Becky have done what she did? I really doubt it. So her "integrity" was about being true to her friend... but of course she couldn't say that without compromising herself in Trump's eyes.

So... that was a very tough and delicate situation. Becky navigated it well.

Very well said. Obviously she is not going to say that she didn't bring Toral into the Boardroom because Toral was the only one to even CARE that she had broken her ankle - which for her was a big deal since she had never before broken a bone. Alla was smiling when Rebecca fell, Kristi's "you broke it?" sounded a bit joyous, and Felisha's commentary on having to get physical in tasks sounded like she was pretty much saying that she wanted Rebecca to quit. They feigned concern when she and Toral returned from the doctor's, but not very well - anyone could tell that they couldn't care less. I realize it doesn't compare to someone's grandmother dying but it is interesting to see the support Randal received versus almost no support that Rebecca received.

natashapierre · 10-12-2005, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geea7

Very well said. Obviously she is not going to say that she didn't bring Toral into the Boardroom because Toral was the only one to even CARE that she had broken her ankle - which for her was a big deal since she had never before broken a bone. Alla was smiling when Rebecca fell, Kristi's "you broke it?" sounded a bit joyous, and Felisha's commentary on having to get physical in tasks sounded like she was pretty much saying that she wanted Rebecca to quit. They feigned concern when she and Toral returned from the doctor's, but not very well - anyone could tell that they couldn't care less. I realize it doesn't compare to someone's grandmother dying but it is interesting to see the support Randal received versus almost no support that Rebecca received.

Sorry, while I think you folks hae given a very good description of what probably did pass through Rebecca's mind, I still don't see why she *couldn't* have made a successful argument for Toral based on team spirit shown toward a fallen member, helpfulness, support, and stepping up to the plate.

She could have phrased all that just as impersonally as she framed the "Toral is an intellectual heavyweight" comment and it would have had the advantage of reflecting the truth and being clearly based on her own experience with Toral, rather than on airy nothings that Marshawn could knock down with a well-placed comment about Toral's inability to operate a television. Yeah, Rebecca didn't get fired, but that's only because Jen W was such a worthy target. I really don't think that Trump bought at all Rebecca's stuff about how Toral was the only one who was executive material.

Plus, since Trump himself went into a big spasm about how important it was to show his and the show's concern for Randall and so on by letting him go to the funeral, he seems to me to send a signal that he doesn't value only intellect, or at least that he pretends not to. The pitching-in-to-help-a-team-member-fallen-through-no-fault-of-her-own quality has value in an employment context too, and it seems to me that Trump might well respect somebody more for working off of an actual event rather than speculating about somebody's ability because of the school name on her diploma, whether he went to the same school or not. She didn't need to spin the helpfulness trait as "oooh, Toral's been my buddy." She could have used her vaunted debater technique to show why what Toral actually did was of objective value in a team situation.

When Rebecca made such a point of Toral's intellectual and executive capabilities, she was clearly talking through her hat. She doesn't know whether Toral is intellectual executive heavyweight material or not, at this point. And considering the Toral-got-thrown-out-of-Columbia-for-repeated-cheating rumors that are flying around, I think Rebecca will turn out to be dead wrong in her assessment of Toral's abilities anyway. That won't make her look so great down the line either

Of course, compared to some of the sorority-clique crap, she's still likely to look good compared to many of the other women, I guess.

Rabid Dingo · 10-12-2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natashapierre

Sorry, while I think you folks hae given a very good description of what probably did pass through Rebecca's mind, I still don't see why she *couldn't* have made a successful argument for Toral based on team spirit shown toward a fallen member, helpfulness, support, and stepping up to the plate.

She could have phrased all that just as impersonally as she framed the "Toral is an intellectual heavyweight" comment and it would have had the advantage of reflecting the truth and being clearly based on her own experience with Toral, rather than on airy nothings that Marshawn could knock down with a well-placed comment about Toral's inability to operate a television. Yeah, Rebecca didn't get fired, but that's only because Jen W was such a worthy target. I really don't think that Trump bought at all Rebecca's stuff about how Toral was the only one who was executive material.

Plus, since Trump himself went into a big spasm about how important it was to show his and the show's concern for Randall and so on by letting him go to the funeral, he seems to me to send a signal that he doesn't value only intellect, or at least that he pretends not to. The pitching-in-to-help-a-team-member-fallen-through-no-fault-of-her-own quality has value in an employment context too, and it seems to me that Trump might well respect somebody more for working off of an actual event rather than speculating about somebody's ability because of the school name on her diploma, whether he went to the same school or not. She didn't need to spin the helpfulness trait as "oooh, Toral's been my buddy." She could have used her vaunted debater technique to show why what Toral actually did was of objective value in a team situation.

When Rebecca made such a point of Toral's intellectual and executive capabilities, she was clearly talking through her hat. She doesn't know whether Toral is intellectual executive heavyweight material or not, at this point. And considering the Toral-got-thrown-out-of-Columbia-for-repeated-cheating rumors that are flying around, I think Rebecca will turn out to be dead wrong in her assessment of Toral's abilities anyway. That won't make her look so great down the line either

Of course, compared to some of the sorority-clique crap, she's still likely to look good compared to many of the other women, I guess.

In that case, we'll just have to wait and see how Rebecca handles herself in the coming weeks.

10-10-2005, 01:41 PM	#31
Dogbat FORT Fogey Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,053	Rebecca was the reason the task failed. True, the planner did an inexcusable job but where was the PM when her plan was made? Who would have thought an event planner would serve a sheet cake and punch? Well history has shown it is necessary for all PM's to check on tasks they delegate. Rebecca also okayed stupid technology. A high definition TV is a big boy toy for those who can afford it. When all is said and done they are just TV's with better pictures on the few channels that offer high def viewing, and there are not many of them. Oh, and do the set up proceedure before people arrive! Trumps lawyers may have had more to do with keeping Rebecca than anything else. That reward was stupid on several levels.

10-10-2005, 03:04 PM	#32
natashapierre FORT Fogey Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,301	[quote=divaexpatriate]Because she CAN'T say that. Because being a good friend is not a valid reason for keeping someone in The Apprentice! [QUOTE} Not even after The Donald's paean to loyalty that he delivered? ... He loved her loyalty, he said ... Are you saying that he only likes you to be loyal to somebody because they're intelligent, but not because they step up to be helpful , work hard for you, support you when you're down, and so on? ... That distinction doesn't make sense to me (which doesn't mean that it may not be true, of course, Trump being as wacky as he is!) Aren't those qualities valuable in business, too? It seems to me that anybody who actually valued loyalty would also value those qualities? [quote] It shows her logical character: a stark contrast to emotional, hysterical Jennifer W. She could have said something like "I bake for my grandmother & her elderly friends often and they enjoy cake the most as a dessert over things like cookies, which are harder to chew", showing that she logically considered what foods to have available. Instead, she said "I chose cake because my grandmother likes cake"... lol! The same thing can be phrased differently and all of a sudden it's turned into a valid argument! Becky understands that revealing her true feelings on why she didn't bring in Toral would only succeed in making her look emotional and biased. Instead, she tried to come up with a rational and objective reason for not bringing her in: namely, Toral's intellectual abilities & corporate experience. She may have been a bit dramatic in her delivery of that reason (if you don’t choose Toral, we won’t have a female apprentice!), but her basic argument was valid and objective. She also emphasized "integrity" and "loyalty"- buzz words which back up her logical argument with a semblance of emotion and heart... without actually turning her argument -into- an emotional argument. [quote] I completely agree about Jen W and the distinction between her idiot responses and Rebecca's. Where we part ways is only in the "valid and objective" issue on Rebecca's argument. I agree that she may have figured it was expedient. ... I just don't think that makes is "valid" or "objective." Where's the evidence for Toral's supposed superiority? Bottom line for me, I think -- I just don't have a lot of respect for people whose main strength seems to be glib arguing in tthe boardroom, successful as they may be on the show because of it. So if she was doing what you say, I agree that it was fast thinking on her feet. That quality just doesn't impress me very much, when it's not backed up by other attributes that I don't see in her.... Where was she when all the really bad decisions were being made about how to run their expo, for example? On the other hand, if Rebecca really believes that Toral is the only worthy one, based on what looks to me like nothing more than the fact she went to Penn, then it's her judgment I question.... She said that with such fervor, that I felt as if she believed it, though the scenario you lay out also seems quite plausible.

10-10-2005, 04:02 PM	#33
Jessica1975 FORT Newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 37	First, let me say, kudos to Rebecca for choosing a nice basic black cast to coordinate with her outfits. Second. I think she took a big risk bringing both Jens into the boardroom. It was a move just shy of bringing in only one other person. I'm glad she didn't because honestly, I'm quite sick of the whole "Can I bring just one person in, Donald" businness. What I wonder is if Rebecca pointed out Jen M's reliance on her looks to get them a better rating and then it was edited out. That bit where Jen M was all, "Lets do push ups in small clothes b/c we'll get better marks" was terribly obnoxious to me and Caroline noticed the behavior. It would have been worth mentioning. Third, the loyalty thing. It doesn't much matter what we think of her move. She played a hand that took guts and the opinion that mattered liked it. The Donald thought it should good character and strength and she explained herself in a manner which was clear but not challenging to TD. Where the women are concerned, Rebecca is still way up there on my list of girls who'll go the distance.

10-10-2005, 04:20 PM	#34
aname FORT Fogey Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,320	She got a pass from The Donald because she is pretty, but as a PM is way too bossy and delegated without keeping a close enough tab on what was actually going on. She is gutsy, strong, and sticks to her guns . . but she causes too much friction with the other women. Because of her personality, she is not a good leader - a tough manager true, but not a leader who people want to follow.

10-10-2005, 05:12 PM	#35
Jessica1975 FORT Newbie Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 37	Just because she doesn't waste her time trying to get people "jazzed" (which shows that they aren't self motivated which is a VERY poor quality) doesn't mean she's not a good leader. And we saw her act as PM for what 10 minutes? I'm sure she kept tabs, but a good leader expects the best from her team. A good leader takes what is presented to him/her as each individuals strengths and then allows them to work to those strengths. Jenn W said she had experience in event planning. So Rebecca let her take that aspect. Jenn W. should be capable enough to set up an event like a professional, and shouldn't need someone to hold her hand throughout the process. I also think it shows a lot about Rebecca that she is keeping the person she sees as her biggest competition. That shows character.