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Thread: 7/27/05 Discussion Thread **Spoilers**

  1. #31
    FORT Fogey just1paul's Avatar
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    Aug 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by getreal
    But saying that Nick is "smart" in spite of no evidence in favor of, and clear evidence to the contrary (he can't figure out 5 x 3 at the age of 14), is like saying that someone who can't swim is a great swimmer. Sure, you can put them in the deep end of a pool and they will quickly travel 12 feet through the water, so they must be a great swimmer. But that would be ignoring the fact that they can only travel through the water in one direction -- straight DOWN!
    So let's just keep the thought going as his brother does and say he's stupid. I truly believe he is smart, but just cannot process things as fast as a lot of other people because after being constantly told you're stupid etc., one just gives up. Let's see what the end of the show tells us before you bestow the label of not so smart on him. Dyslexia was and continues to be a major piece of luggage for people to admit to. Just like this one guy at work who will not admit that he cannot read, but let's people think he's rather slow witted.

    Quote Originally Posted by freethinker
    Being dyslexic has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not a person is smart! A person's inability to process things in a certain way is in no way an indicator of their intelligence. A comment like the above "evidence to the contrary" is exactly what can make a person with dyslexia feel inferior and stupid!

    I should know -- I'm dyslexic myself. Yet despite the same "evidence to the contrary" that Nick displayed, I am a college graduate and on my last IQ test scored one tick away from being a so-called 'genius' (by IQ test standards).

    I now have a 15 year old daughter who is also dyslexic and who has also gone through periods of feeling "stupid" simply because of her inability to process things as easily as others can. In order to keep her self-esteem up, I let her know every single day that she is, indeed, very smart - because she is!

    Your analogy to drowning in the deep end of a pool could not have been more wrong.
    Good, very good!
    Last edited by just1paul; 07-30-2005 at 02:39 PM.
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  2. #32
    Are you ready? freethinker's Avatar
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    Aug 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by getreal
    Based on what?? He's a punk who is in a Brat Camp and can't figure out 5 x 3 in his head -- he's not READING it, after all. Dyslexia is a cop out and it's this rationale that has lead him to where he is.
    If you think dyslexia is only about reading, then you obviously know very little about it.

    The common misconception about dyslexics is that they only have trouble reading and tend to transpose letters and words. BUT -- that is only one form of dyslexia. There are many others.

    Some dyslexics do have difficulty processing written words, but others have no trouble reading whatsoever -- their form of dyslexia shows up when they are asked to process something in their head without benefit of having it written down for them.

    Then there are others, like me, whose biggest difficulty is in writing things correctly. Oftentimes, the words in my head don't come out the same way on a typed or written page. I also occasionally have the same type of difficulty Nick showed.

    Anyone who knows anything about dyslexia knows that it is a processing problem, totally unrelated to intelligence, that can manifest itself in a variety of ways.

    Better do a little bit of research before being so quick to pass judgment on someone else. The next person you decide isn't "smart" could be my child...or yours.
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  3. #33
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    Sep 2003
    Dyslexia is often the term used for people with all kinds of processing problems. Not being able to write one's thoughts can be labeled dysgraphia. I feel bad that whatever learning disability Nathan has, it looks as if he was not properly tested, nor accomodated for in his school. He needs to learn alternate methods of deriving the information he needs, as others in this thread have obviously done. There are gifted, learning-disabled people, so IQ has little to do with ability to process information. I really like this show, because there are so many kids like this who have slipped through the cracks at school and at home, resulting in bad behavior. Rather than just focusing on the problem, I love seeing a workable solution for these kids in the future. The counselors continually stress finding a place to start and building on that. I have seen kids go through good residential programs and make complete turn-arounds. Staying at home, interacting with the same peer group, maintaining the same old habits will rarely solve these serious problems. Let's hope this group will have sucess.

  4. #34
    If you met me in person, getreal, you would probably think that I am stupid too. When I was that age, I would have had the same reaction as him, now I write articles and papers and get grades that denote anything BUT stupid. But I don't do math, CAN'T do math. If you met me and the only interaction you had with me was to ask me to do a math question in my head, and I couldn't answer it, would you walk away thinking I am stupid? You'd be wrong. I KNOW I'm not stupid.

    What we see of Nick is only a small slice of his actual whole, and he may not actually have that many problems, but we all know how producers cut and paste to make a personality stronger in certain areas, etc, with any television show.

    I don't feel that people who have dyslexia use it as a "cop out" -- many many people with learning disabilities rise above and make something of themselves, but it is the mentality that they are using it as an excuse or that they are just stupid in general that holds them back.

  5. #35

    trying to set the record straight

    Obviously I struck a nerve. It has inspired some very thoughtful and reasonable discussion of dyslexia, so that's a good thing. But my words are being twisted as the discussion continues, so I feel compelled to speak up once again.

    My intent was never to challenge, label or disparage all dyslexics. All I did was challenge one forum member's description of Nick as "smart" based on what we've been shown by the third episode of Brat Camp, and it has grown and mutated from there.

    I won't beat this dead horse any more, and my hat is off to anybody and everybody who must face challenges of all sorts in their daily lives.

    There are clearly more things going on with Nick which led him to Brat Camp, and we are only shown tightly edited snippets, so none of us have anything much to use to judge him fairly. I look forward to a positive outcome for all of the kids depicted in the show.

    No hard feelings, gang.
    Last edited by getreal; 08-01-2005 at 05:35 PM.

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