Well, Dan was definitely there with a date/girlfriend and Franklin appeared to be with a girl, but it wasn't really clear what the relationship was. Michael appeared to be alone.
Originally Posted by foody
I've never seen ANY actual chemistry between folks on dating shows. Granted, I haven't watched them all (never watched The Bachelor/ette) but I have watched enough to recognize the "we're supposed to kiss now for the TV cameras" kiss.
Originally Posted by BMBFan835
It's too bad. I rewatched the first episode and James said he hoped that there was a spark between someone and him right off the bat. It didn't happen (although Wes was the sparkiest of the bunch, but just cause he's a huge flirt!)
Although I suppose if there was a serious attraction going on from day 1, it would kill the suspense a bit.
I'd love to hear more and more about the party. Was Franklin with a date? How did the crowd react to him when he was revealed as straight? How did he react? How did he and James interact? Enquiring minds want to know.
Originally Posted by Lolasdad
yeah i second this... share dammit!!!
Originally Posted by smatt1973
In some ways I am thinking this may be tied up with your question about what James said to Brian when he said "to not hurt you I have to not choose you. You will understand.
Originally Posted by foody
I wonder if James and Andra between them couldn't totally decide 100% who was straight between Franklin and Brian and so James went with the safe choice Wes--who he was sure way gay and had a bond with.
The other thing I find interesting is if you are looking at personalities and how Brian and Wes were described--as so often happens in real life the person "most mothers would like to have in their family" came in second place.
That being said I wish nothing but the best to James and Wes. And I hope Brian finds that special someone who is out there for him.
I sure was disappointed ...
... Brian was a bit more mature than little boy Wes. Oh well.
I definitely don't think there was any sort of agreement cooked up between James and Wes about going on the trip. Wes is generally very jokey and "on," but that whole day before the decision he seems very quiet, tense and withdrawn -- much more the way he'd be actiing if he had strong feelings for James but didn't know what the outcome would be. And his strong emotional reaction when James told him he was the chosen one -- well, it could be acting, but I didn't think so. I think there was genuine chemistry and attraction there. I caught that, "It'd be fun just to be near him," too -- that says a lot.
foody, I don't know how to do the long quote thing, but I wanted to respond to some of the questions you raised. I think the reason they originally didn't use the footage of Matt saying he wanted to leave was because they wanted to build suspense as to whether he'd be picked, etc. in the elimination ceremony. That remark pretty much guaranteed that James would give him a pass.
As far as Brian, I took James' comments to mean that he had romantic feelings for Wes, and so he'd only be hurting Brian if he chose him.
I think you are absolutely right about the dates being what you make them. After all, James and Wes originally bonded while rock climbing, which wasn't a particularly romantic setting. And IIRC, James was told what the final three dates would be and he was allowed to pick who would go on which date. He chose the spa with Franklin hoping the fact that they had to get undressed would reveal whether Franklin was, in fact, straight. He chose the balloon ride with Brian because it was fun and casual and he thinks of Brian as someone to have fun with. And he chose the very romantic dinner date with Wes because he had the most chemistry with Wes. Wes got the romantic date because James had those feelings for him -- not the other way around.
On the order, I agree with you. I think James would have wanted to get the most painful interview out of the way first (Franklin). His comments to Wes about honesty and sincerity show that he's probably still smarting from Franklin's deception. They edited it well to build suspense -- from James' opening remarks to Wes, it sounds like he's not going to pick him. "I hope you'll always have a place for me in your heart no matter what happens," sounds like a classic kiss-off line. It appears Wes thinks that, too, from the look on his face. But Wes must have been the final one, because they walk off together into the house after that.
I was not disappointed at all in this episode. I thought they edited it very well to make the point they wanted -- that there is not that much difference between gay and straight men, or gay and straight relationships, and that this was an eye-opening experience for all involved. And I loved the ultra-romantic ending! I got choked up through all three of the final one-on-one talks -- the first two because I hated seeing Brian and then James get hurt, and the one with Wes because there was just so much feeling there. When Wes teared up and was too emotional to even speak, and then put his head on James' shoulder and kind of snuggled into James' arms, I had tears in my eyes as well. Just beautiful. I wish them much happiness.
Last edited by Ladyluck; 09-04-2003 at 11:22 AM.
LadyLuck, you are probably right about the Brian/hurt statement. I think looking back on things, that though it's pretty much evident that Brian is a super guy with a very positive outlook on life (which James was very taken with and respected), he may have felt that there was not as much spark as with Wes. Personally, I don't like highly orchestrated dates, and 'grand romantic gestures' b/c in the end, it's all about what things boil down to in its sparest state -- two people and a connection. Sometimes the relationship gets stronger when it's tested by 'things going wrong'.... instead of 'everything going right'. There was something in Wes that James just wanted to touch and be near. Given, Wes has charisma -- and many people here have judged him for it. Whether he and James stay together may rely on how much each is willing to incorporate the other person's world and style.
Originally Posted by Ladyluck
Matt -- yes, you are right; they wanted to build the suspense. It's good that they put the real clip in the last ep b/c it clears up James's state of mind during that selection. I always wondered if James didn't keep him b/c he was insulted by Matt's 'I don't feel the connection' remark. Since Matt actually said that he wanted out, then it pretty much closes any questions on that!
I loved the ending too. I wish they had made it a two hour ep (thus torturing us a little longer!), with more comments by the other gay mates, more footage of the decision process... there are still many people on the forum who are skeptical as to James's motivations for choosing one over the other, and I wish we could just dispel them here and now! Some say that he chose Wes because he was the 'most gay' and therefore James could rest assured he didn't pick the straight guy. I saw James has too much integrity to use something like that for an excuse, not to mention invalidate/jeopardize the process of this first-time gay dating show.
dearkate, I've taken a look at the scene again, but still can't really figure it out. It looks like they edited the entire lunch conversation to just include the most stressful moments, so all the topics are jumping around a bit.
Originally Posted by dearkate
this is how I thought it went:
in the scene, Andra is testing the 'someone is not being true' theory on the mates, without divulging that she knows there is a straight guy in the mix. She uses Darren as an example, but cannot say that she 'knows/thinks' he is one of the straight ones. Franklin, who doesn't know that Andra knows there is a straight guy, thinks she is just being a little too hysterical considering that this is only a dating show, which is not 'life and death'. Andra is pissed b/c it sounds like Franklin is not respecting her sincere concern for her friend -- life or death or not. For Andra, who knows that if James picks the straight guy it will be devastating for him, does feel that this is a big deal. Given that Andra doesn't know for sure that franklin is the straight one, she does pounce on him a little, but it turns out that Franklin IS the straight one, which brings up the question of why Franklin kept opening his mouth and digging himself deeper! He made the West Hollywood remark, I think, because he may have felt a little cornered and scared his cover might have been blown -- so he threw something in about being in the West Hollywood gay scene and the superficiality of that scene. He should have just said nothing, or at least murmured some vague comment about everyone being concerned and wanting what's best,etc.
Thank you foody! Thats exactly what I thought about the editing because it just didn't sound like a conversation that flowed very well, or that certain responses made sense to certain comments. But now I get the gist and everyones intentions. But whatever. I agree that Franklin should have been a little more careful about what he said.
Originally Posted by foody
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