Please forgive me, but I don't remember. I will look for it again. I know I read it somewhere on this board, as I don't lurk anywhere else. I also remember it being a quote from Wes.
Originally Posted by FranFan
I will give it to you you really changed my mind, I was was so consumed with Wes kissing James that I jumped to conclusion, great observation
Originally Posted by dcaftboy
Sheesh. Just because Brian is a bartender doesn't mean he is a slut or highly sexually active. I'm am really sick of that line of thought.
I'm a bartender and I've probably had less sexual partners in all my 34 years then most people have had in half that time on the face of this earth. I don't think anything bad with those that choose to ...uhmm...diversify their love making, but it's just not for me. And I don't really find myself all that rare when compared to other bartenders I know. We are drawn from the same pool of people as everyone else, therefor we are just as likely to be sluts as we are to be prudes.
The only difference between us and people of most other occupations is that we have to flirt more if we want to get the good money. But, as any sexually active adult should know, there are two types of flirtling. The overt kind that only for show and means nothing, and the subtle kind that's all about true attraction and intent.
Most successful bartenders learn very early on that you should never sleep with your customers and your lover should never come to the bar where you work....or atleast only at closing time. So don't think that just because we smile and wink at you that it means you are going to get lucky that night...chances are, we've already been slipped tons of phone numbers by better looking guys before you got there and thrown THOSE away.
Originally Posted by Orinos
I really don't like any kind of stereotyping, because it's arrogant to assume something of someone when there's more to a person than just what he does for a living or what he looks like. Not all stockbrokers are jerks who have no ethics; not all priests are saints. Brian hasn't even been 'working it' to get James -- you could take this to mean any of a number of things: he could be gay and just not that naturally 'on' like Wes; he could be straight and just not that 'on' in his nonwork life; he could be straight and has decided that he's not going to shove himself falsely on James. To be honest, my pick for straight man is Brian, but that comes from watching what he's said so far (which, to be honest isn't very much!) and seeing how he's acted. Of course, he could be gay and completely a slut... TV changes the 'reality' of things, so it's really impossible to say.
[QUOTE=Orinos]God, why do so many people put such stock into a kiss.
Don't get me wrong, kiss is great, but it's not a good way to tell someone's sexuality. As gay men, we should know this. How many of you gay men, while still in the closet, kissed a woman passionately? I bet none of them said, "Gee, you kiss like a queer." Kissing is easy, anyone can do it, so don't read into it. Contrary to what the song says, it's not all in his kiss: It's in his unprovoked touching.
Speaking of touching. At the Karoke when Andra chose Wes to sing with James, Wes reached over and touched James on the arm. After the song when Coco Parue said they were going somewhere secret, Wes put his hand on James's leg. (I wish they had shown more of the hug at the door). After the dinner and fire, it was Wes who reached for James's hand. After the kiss, they both put their hands in their pockets and then Wes took his left hand out and reached over and touched James again.
Wes reminds me of a happy little puppy who wants to be petted.
Actually, hon, it wasn't Wes who reached for James' hand after that..uhmm...heated dinner. It was James who reached for Wes'. He even said he reached for Wes in the voice over he was giving.
And, yes, I say Wes touch James at the Karoke bar, but, like I said earlier, all his touching seemed so overt, so obvious. He WANTED it to be noticed by everyone, not just James.
Maybe it's just me, but I've always felt that romance should be a private thing, and that when someone is truly interested in me, they show it even on the unconscious level. It's those unconscious signals I look for, not the overt ones.
Being a bartender and having to do my own fair share of flirting just to make a buck, I come to understand the difference between "public flirting" and "private flirting." I mean that there is the flirting that you do when you just want something and no true attraction has anything to do with it, and the flirting you do that unconscious and uncomfortable and filled with doubt that has everything to do with attraction. I only do it on a daily basis.
Wes' flirting just seems like the kind I would do inorder to get a tip. Franklin's seems more real, more unsure.
This isn't stereotyping, this is a comparison to personal experience. Wes is me at work and Franklin is me when I'm with my lover.
Orinos, I think it was Wes's voice in the voiceover. Wes was saying that by the end of dinner, Wes was getting some signals from James that James was open to stepping up to the next level of intimacy, and Wes said he reached for James's hand.... and James basically took Wes's hand in return. In other words, when Wes looked down to his hand and stretched it out to James, James didn't merely allow it to be taken, but also reached a little of the way and took Wes's hand as well. It's a little confusing, but if you look at the video you'll probably see what I mean.
Originally Posted by Orinos
Ok, maybe I'm wrong about the hand holding thing. But I still see Wes's actions as being well thought out and attention getting ploys.
I've seen these tactics before and even employed a few of them myself. They are only genuine in so far as Wes truely wants to be the one that wins, that he wants something from James, not that he wants James himself.
Does this mean you think he's straight and acting this way to win the game? Or do you think he's gay but just catering to his own ego by trying to win despite the fact that there is no real attraction?
Originally Posted by Orinos
I thought that moment after they kissed/hugged was most telling. That whole lingering dance they did. If that didn't mean they wanted each other on some level.... Wes is a bit of a pleaser -- sort of does what he does to endear himself to people, and knows how to do it (like when people train you for interviews, they tell you to have a firm hand shake, make eye contact, state clearly your attitude towards the job, etc). I think he's done quite a bit of non-obvious flirting...
Goody question, Foody.
If I didn't know that there was a straight man amoung them, then I probably wouldn't have thought him striaght. I would have thought him ingenuine and just trying to win dispit any true attraction. But since I DO know that one of the mates is straight, I have to put my guess foward that it's Wes.
I believe that Brian is gay. Of him, I have no doubt. But I also believe that Brain also has no attraction to James. I believe that he thinks James is a nice guy and attractive, just not his type, per se.
Brian: gay...not attracted to James.
Wes: straight...pretending to be attracted to James
Franklin: gay....wants to make beautiful music with James.
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