09-03-2003, 11:21 AM #211
wes, the great!
the man who won james' heart. the view on abc's taking applicants to fill a seat as co-host. i think you would be fab for the job. the camera loves you and we love you. give that show a gay spin. lord knows it needs it.
09-03-2003, 11:54 AM #212
ps. i've e-mailed star jones about the idea. i chose to e-mail her from the cast because she's very quick with the replies.
Originally Posted by ant
09-03-2003, 12:04 PM #213
Ok, so I don’t regularly post on virtually anything. However, I have all of this pent up emotion over last night’s episode. Here are a few observations:
1. Yeah Wes and James! I was always a little suspicious of Wes only because of the trailer and the selective editing by the director which cast Wes in a negative light. After the 4th episode and the “flaming candle date” with the hand-holding and sincere kiss, I knew Wes and James were into each other. Kudos for navigating the twists, lies, etc. I hope you two can make it work; if not, then, good luck to you both; you both seem sincere, honest and just good people. Be true to yourselves and don’t let the publicity jade you. (Also, let us know how you are doing. I, too, wanna know if you are “living happily ever after” -- at least for the moment.)
2. I’m disappointed in Franklin, but not angry with him. Actually, Franklin was my initial pick from the first episode. Only after the twist was revealed to James did I figure out that Franklin must be the straight guy, especially since he was paired with Sean in the semi-final round.
I also have some serious respect for Franklin only from the stand point of lessons learned. Now Franklin intimately knows what it feels like to play a part in a world that is often unaccepting. How often have us gay boys played it straight to get a job or other advancement? In my opinion, Franklin wasn’t much different.
I think the whole idea of having straights participate in a gay dating show is acceptable to me. I think it’s amusing that some straight boys have to play it gay for once. I also think the placement of straights in a gay dating show has some social merit. Paraphrasing Justice O’Conner’s thoughts in Lawrence v. White, once a standard is applied even-handedly to all, the inequities of the standard become self-evident. Causing straight-boys to play it gay on national television I think makes the (implied in reality and expressed in the military) “Don’t ask, don’t tell” policy absurd. What I find really interesting about the arguments against inclusion of straights in a gay dating show is that those arguments have parallels to the straight’s opposition to gays in the military. Think about it.
My best to all. What a great show! I hope it was (or can be made into) a positive experience for everyone involved. Again, nice job Wes and James; good luck to you both wherever your lives may take you.
09-03-2003, 12:54 PM #214
interesting point, MT SAV. I was thinking about it, and it seems so strange that gay men and straight men have this incredible fear and suspicion. (Well, it was the straight men's culture that breeded intolerance in the first place, but...) You'd think the two groups would have the least problems with each other -- afterall, the only people who should be most disappointed that there are so many wonderful gay men out there are the straight women! but seriously, this has been tons of fun discussing all the tangents and angles of this issue with everyone here. Y'all don't go away too soon -- stick around and let's all hash over stuff some more, just a little bit longer..... I need to come down from the high fun of watching this show together.
Originally Posted by MT SAV
09-03-2003, 12:59 PM #215
Yes, I know I used to....before I came out at age 33. I also found that after I came out, I didn't have the problems I was always so scared of in the professional world. I found it to be more accepting than I thought it would be. I also am naturally a "straight" acting guy, and not a stereotype mincing campy queen.....that also may have been an influence on my ability to "fit in" with society.
Originally Posted by MT SAV
09-03-2003, 01:06 PM #216
Good points. The other thing that struck was the reversal of the comment, "but he's still the same person regardless of whether he is gay or straight." While it never any fun to be deceived, Franklin's speech about still being him, is what a gay person typical has to face when then come out. If anyone feels betrayed by Franklin and the other straight Mates and questioning their own judgement, maybe they need to remember that this is often what straight people feel when someone they know well tells them they are Gay.
09-03-2003, 01:20 PM #217
Even Matt said in the finale that he had no straight male friends and wondered why that was after the show. I think the show, whether you liked it or not, did break down some barriers. Portraying romance and individuals versus "wild on spring break" or "look what those guys are wearing on the float in that parade" did show many people that (to paraphrase James) "gay people just like straight people fall in love and need relationships". I came out in my mid-30's and was terrified because most of my friends/family are straight. Was pleasantly surprised that most everyone was immediately accepting, especially the straight guys, who made me and my partner very comfortable at get togethers, etc. One of my straight married friends said until I came out to him and introduced him to my partner and other gay friends, he had a different picture about our lifestyle and what he believed. Like this show, exposure to us as individuals with "our hearts on our sleeves" as the show did does humanize the issue to many who haven't had close contact with anyone gay (or someone that hasn't come out to them yet). My partner and I definately fell for Wes and James and hope they do well together and in life. When Wes laid his head on James' shoulder, it expressed more than many romantic movies I've seen recently. Both of them, Brian, Rob, etc. make great role models for individuals dealing with their sexuality and show the possibility that friendship, romance and acceptance is possible. Even with the ugly twist, I applaud Bravo because maybe that twist got people to watch the show and take home more from it than they expected. The straight guys who joined the show maybe for other financial purposes definately seemed to walk away with more. Maybe vicariously others experienced the same emotions. Good luck to Wes and James!
Originally Posted by foody
09-03-2003, 01:27 PM #218
Originally Posted by jcboltfan
i know wes was like a cute puppy. i was balling when i saw that scene. yeah with the ugliness there's beauty. kudos to james and wes!
09-03-2003, 01:36 PM #219
That's a wonderful story, jcboltfan. Thanks for sharing! I'm so glad that you had a good transition. It's always difficult to change the way other's want to see you. Not just gay, but even what people expect of you personality wise -- like someone who is always responsible and stable suddenly falling in love with a person, and running off to do spontaneous 'irresponsible' things. Even something as simple as that -- people around them tend to get upset, betrayed, or judgmental. For gay men and women, it's like a billion times worse b/c people are brought up being fed very specific images. Even the idea of romance itself is fed into us, and we grow up thinking the men to be the hero or the knight in shining armor -- an idea that still exists in this post-feminist era.
Originally Posted by jcboltfan
Anything that breaks the illusion of what SHOULD to reveal what IS, is good by me. It gives permission to people to allow themselves to be themselves.
I liked Matt's point too. It was great that he saw that in himself, and even though he is a gay man, and left halfway through, he was still left with lingering thoughts to incorporate into his future. As I said in another post, it's just important to get the images out there -- of gay and straight men of all types mingling and able to have fun together. That in itself is significant, b/c the more you see that type of images, the more it doesn't seem so strange anymore.
Also, the romance/dating aspect of the show was great for changing emotional reactions to gay men's romances (not just intellectual). Instead of having it be about sex, it was about a decent guy finding potential happiness in a relationship. We all love a good romance! And once you start watching, you can't help but start rooting for certain people to make it to the next level -- once you have mainstream america actually rooting for gay couplehood, you transition their emotions to one that naturally accepts the possibility of gay men having real feelings and having real relationships just as rich as anyone else's.
09-03-2003, 02:18 PM #220
Great observation and story JCBOLTFAN. I agree that I think the whole show, in general, cast a postive light on gays everywhere. I, too, believe that visibility is the key . . . even if that visibility is shows the good and the bad. For those straight folk who watched the program, I believe they realized (if they hadn't realized earlier) that we are just the same . . . experience the same emotions, trials and tribulations. More importantly, we are all looking for someone to share our life with. Now that isn't so wrong, is it?!?
My partner and I genuinely enjoyed the show; we had four other gay guys over watching the show last night and were on the edge of our seats until the end. I thought Bravo did an excellent job of maintaining the suspense until the last moment. As I remarked in another post, I was happy to see Wes say, "let's go somewhere." Boy I bet they had a lot to share in the privacy beyond the watchful camera eye. Being the eternal optimist, I hope they do find love.
BTW, does anyone know when the week of adventure were originally shot? Have we heard any updates?
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