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Thread: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series *spoilers*

  1. #61
    Leaning Forward cantstopwatchin's Avatar
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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical View Post
    I'm now reading A Feast for Crows and man, it's a slow read (comparatively). I LOVE this series, but I have to say, I think it was a mistake to split the narrative this way. There are just too many unfamiliar characters this far into the story. Yes, you get King's Landing and Sam and a bit of the Wall, but there's SO MUCH of the Greyjoy's and the Iron Islands. Those parts just drag.

    I think the series would have been stronger, as a whole, if GRRM had split the narrative chronologically instead of geographically.

    I've been reading the books a little more slowly this time through and I'm catching all kinds of things I missed before.
    ITA - FoC dragged. When I reread the books, I skimmed through the Iron Island parts and only read the others. That's why I was so happy about DwD - it gave us back the characters who were missing and was so much better.

    I have to give it to GRRM - he definitely knows where the series is headed - all the allusions and foreshadowing in the early books to events that happen later... I def. read DwD much slower than the others...
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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    I just finished A Feast for Crows a little while ago. I had to FORCE myself to get through some parts, but I read all of it. I did skim some of the Iron Islands stuff last time, but I read it all this time through. The toughest thing for me to read in AFFC is Biter's attack on Brienne at the end of the book. Just horrifying.

    I did catch some things that I missed or that maybe didn't hit me the last time. At the kingsmoot, Euron has a horn that calls dragons!? What will that mean for Dany?

    I wonder if we'll ever learn what word Brienne screamed out as she was being hung that saved her. Stuff like that drives me crazy!

    I found the stuff with Sam in Oldtown confusing. Why would the archmaester want him dead if he revealed his whole story? Was the thing with Pate supposed to be a big reveal at the end? Didn't Pate die?

    I just looked this up and found this: Pate - A Song of Ice and Fire Wiki
    It says that, when Pate dies in the prologue of AFFC, he sees his killer take on his appearance, but I went back and read it and that doesn't happen on the page....or I'm really dense (totally possible). So, I guess we are meant to think that this new Pate at the Citadel is a bad guy and that Sam is in danger.

    The biggest problem I have when reading these books is that Martin will introduce a character or describe him or her in a way that makes me think I should know exactly who it is already because we've seen this person before.....and I can't remember who the heck it is! Like with Pate. I had to go back and look it up. That was almost a thousand pages ago, I need my memory jogged a bit more!

    On to A Dance With Dragons! Again!
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  3. #63
    CCL
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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    I do think that is what we are to think re: the Pate Wiki entry as it seems as his killer was like Jaqen/one of the faceless assassins. I remembered about Euron having the dragon-calling horn as I was thinking Dany needed that to sort out her dragons! But, as I recall, the man who blew it then died horribly so maybe only certain people can use it? I think it is connected to the (the same?) horn as the fabled one that if someone blows it the Wall is supposed to come down.
    I did find the Iron Islands chapters not that thrilling. I definitely have to read the books again before the next one comes out I think but, seeing as how that will probably be in eight or ten years I have time.
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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    Quote Originally Posted by CCL View Post
    I do think that is what we are to think re: the Pate Wiki entry as it seems as his killer was like Jaqen/one of the faceless assassins. I remembered about Euron having the dragon-calling horn as I was thinking Dany needed that to sort out her dragons! But, as I recall, the man who blew it then died horribly so maybe only certain people can use it? I think it is connected to the (the same?) horn as the fabled one that if someone blows it the Wall is supposed to come down.
    I did find the Iron Islands chapters not that thrilling. I definitely have to read the books again before the next one comes out I think but, seeing as how that will probably be in eight or ten years I have time.
    Bite your tongue! GRRM is not getting any younger. If he takes that long to write each of the next 2 or 3 books (since he's now saying that there might be 8), we'll never find out how it all ends!

    I don't think the dragon-calling horn can only be blown by one person. I'm not sure the man who blew it actually died - he collapsed and had blood and blisters on his lips after blowing it, but I don't remember him dying on the page. Either way, it's definitely not something to play around with.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the Horn of Joramun and Euron's horn are somehow related. Although since we now know that the horn Mance said was the Horn of Joramun actually isn't, it makes me wonder about the broken horn that Sam has - the one that was found at the Fist. I read a theory a while back that the Horn of Joramun calls dragons too and that the reason it can bring down the Wall is that there is a dragon in the Wall. Apparently, people got that from something Maester Aemon says in AFFC.

    These near misses just drive me crazy. Bran being on the island with Meera, Jojen and Hodor while Jon and Ygritte are on shore (the night of the attack when he returns to the Wall). Bran actually being at the Wall and Jon not knowing. Arya arriving at the Red Wedding too late.... Argh! I did enjoy the little meeting between "Cat" and Sam on the docks in Braavos in AFFC.

    The one reunion I'm most hoping for is Arya and Jon....really, ANY Stark reunion will make me happy, but I REALLY want Arya and Jon to reunite. Plus, I want Catelyn to know that all of her children are not dead.
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  5. #65
    CCL
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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    I want Arya and Sansa to reunite. I think their relationship would be quite different now.
    A dragon in the wall? Alive or a body? Ooh, an ice dragon rather than one that breathes fire? The possibilities...
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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    Quote Originally Posted by CCL View Post
    I want Arya and Sansa to reunite. I think their relationship would be quite different now.
    A dragon in the wall? Alive or a body? Ooh, an ice dragon rather than one that breathes fire? The possibilities...
    The discussion I read about it was on westeros.org and the implication was that the dragon was frozen....maybe dormant and could be awakened by the horn. I guess it's a non-issue if the real horn is the broken one that Sam has, but it's definitely an interesting theory. The poster who brought up the idea said that Maester Aemon alluded to it before he died. Now I feel like I have to go back to AFFC and read that part again!
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  7. #67
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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical View Post

    These near misses just drive me crazy. Bran being on the island with Meera, Jojen and Hodor while Jon and Ygritte are on shore (the night of the attack when he returns to the Wall). Bran actually being at the Wall and Jon not knowing. Arya arriving at the Red Wedding too late.... Argh! I did enjoy the little meeting between "Cat" and Sam on the docks in Braavos in AFFC.

    The one reunion I'm most hoping for is Arya and Jon....really, ANY Stark reunion will make me happy, but I REALLY want Arya and Jon to reunite. Plus, I want Catelyn to know that all of her children are not dead.
    The near misses drive me up the wall! I just want them to all realize that they aren't all dead! I also really want Arya back in Westeros. I'm tired of her in the temple - and she's my favorite character. I would love to see Jon and Arya reunite - but he's dead (also hoping that's not true).

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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    I really doubt Jon is dead. Of all the surprises GRRM has given us, THAT would be the biggest - ie Jon actually being dead. We thought Catelyn and Brienne (and Davos and Bran and Rickon and....) were dead too and they not.

    I've been reading ADWD and found this passage with Dany talking to Quaithe really revealing:
    "Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others, Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them."
    SO,
    Kraken = Victarion
    dark flame = Moqorro
    lion = Tyrion
    griffin = Griff (Jon Connington)...or Young Griff (Aegon)?
    sun's sun = Quentyn Martell
    mummer's dragon = Young Griff/Aegon?...not clear on this one. I guess I didn't pay attention to the Martell parts the way I thought!

    As I've getting into this book (only abour 250 pages in), I'm remembering how incredible frustrated I am was with Dany the first ime I read it. I just want her to leave Meereen and get on with it! Hopefully, the end of the book means she's making some movement forward, because I spent a lot of ADWD wanting to shake some sense into her!
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

  9. #69
    Leaning Forward cantstopwatchin's Avatar
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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    Quote Originally Posted by Critical View Post
    I really doubt Jon is dead. Of all the surprises GRRM has given us, THAT would be the biggest - ie Jon actually being dead. We thought Catelyn and Brienne (and Davos and Bran and Rickon and....) were dead too and they not.

    I've been reading ADWD and found this passage with Dany talking to Quaithe really revealing:

    SO,
    Kraken = Victarion
    dark flame = Moqorro
    lion = Tyrion
    griffin = Griff (Jon Connington)...or Young Griff (Aegon)?
    sun's sun = Quentyn Martell
    mummer's dragon = Young Griff/Aegon?...not clear on this one. I guess I didn't pay attention to the Martell parts the way I thought!

    As I've getting into this book (only abour 250 pages in), I'm remembering how incredible frustrated I am was with Dany the first ime I read it. I just want her to leave Meereen and get on with it! Hopefully, the end of the book means she's making some movement forward, because I spent a lot of ADWD wanting to shake some sense into her!
    I don't think Jon is dead either. I believe he's going to come back (a la Berric Dondarrion, who was raised by the red priest while Jon has Melissandre) and he will be Azor Ahai reborn.

    Re: your list - I think the Griffin is Jon and I think the Mummer's Dragon = Aegon (mummer meaning fake/false so he could be the 'fake dragon' and not a true Targaryen). That's the only reason I think Aegon might not be Rhaegar's son.

    So many questions!! I really hope GRRM doesn't wait another 8 years before we see the next one.
    "We must overcome the notion that we must be regular...it robs you of the chance to be extraordinary and leads you to the mediocre." - Uta Hagen

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    Re: George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series

    Quote Originally Posted by cantstopwatchin View Post
    I don't think Jon is dead either. I believe he's going to come back (a la Berric Dondarrion, who was raised by the red priest while Jon has Melissandre) and he will be Azor Ahai reborn.

    Re: your list - I think the Griffin is Jon and I think the Mummer's Dragon = Aegon (mummer meaning fake/false so he could be the 'fake dragon' and not a true Targaryen). That's the only reason I think Aegon might not be Rhaegar's son.

    So many questions!! I really hope GRRM doesn't wait another 8 years before we see the next one.
    You and me both! He's 62 now, so he'd better get writing!

    I think the reason I second guessed myself with the list above is that the first few were pairs - Tyrion and Griff were together at that point in the store, as were Victarion and Moqorro. I was trying to think of someone with Quentyn.

    I'm not sure if I think Aegon is a false Targaryon or not. I'll have more of an opinion after I get through this book again. I'm around 350 pages in. The fake/mummer part of of the description could mean that, like Viserys, he's just not the blood of the dragon the way that Dany is.

    I like your theory about Jon! It's going to be a long wait for the The Winds of Winter! I hope Rickon appears in the next book. It's been a long time since he headed off with Osha at the end of ACOK.

    I don't need any of the Stark children to reunite with Catelyn, but I'd like her to KNOW they're alive before she dies. She's likely not going to make it until the end, but it would be nice if she knew that Robb is the only one of her children who's really dead.
    Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.' - Isaac Asimov

    I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

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