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Thread: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

  1. #131
    CCL
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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by remote_goddess;2499091;
    Okay, but if we're going with that theory, then how did Draco disarm Dumbledore? I'm not sure either book 6 or 7 ever clarified, just stated that Draco was the one who disarmed Dumbledore, making him the rightful new owner of the Elder wand. I personally always assumed it was with expelliarmus since he was across the tower from Dumbledore, but I don't recall that ever being clearly stated. If it was with expelliarmus, then the argument about the practice sessions and the DA's use of it makes a good question...

    It's probably a matter of intent. In the last book Harry performed the Cruciatus curse on Amycus. It worked well and he told McGonagall that Bellatrix was right that you really had to mean it for the spell to work fully. The same holds true, I would think, with expelliarmus. In the practice sessions, the DA members wanted to get their partner's wands, yes, but they didn't want to get them in order to use the wand against the other person or for any other negative reason. Nor was it a case of them really battling the other person for the wand - they were just practicing. As such, they didn't really "mean" to disarm their practice partner, and the wands recognized that. That's my conjecture, at least.
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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Each wand chooses it's master. Remember in the first book when Harry went for his first wand and Ollivander put wand after wand into his hand until the one with the Phoenix feather shot sparks out of the end, thus choosing Harry?

    I think each wizard has a wand that works best for him/her; but the Elder wand was truly special as it could work well in the hands of whoever it recognized as it's master.

    Simply taking a wand from someone else isn't enough with all other wands. Regular wands work best with the master it originally selected.

    The Elder wand was special because it could work powerfully with whomever became it's master. It's power was so great that Harry was able to repair his original phoenix feather wand - which Harry said he preferred to use, and which even Ollivander said was beyond his ability to repair.

    ETA: just found this:
    “To truly own the Elder Wand, which means to receive the full benefits, double-edged though it is, of all its power, you have to have conquered the previous owner,” explained Rowling.

    At the end of Book 6, “Half-Blood Prince,” Draco disarmed Dumbledore before Snape killed Dumbledore.

    “And that meant he conquered him, even though Dumbledore was very weak at the time, he was very ill. He was on the point of collapse when it happened,” Rowling said. “Dumbledore didn’t want to lose his wand at that point and Draco disarmed him. So that meant that the wand gave Draco its allegiance, even though Draco never knew it, even though Draco never touched it.

    “From that moment on, that wand gave its allegiance to Draco, and it wouldn’t work as well for anyone but Draco.”

    When Harry wrestles Draco’s “everyday” wand out of his hand at the Malfoy’s mansion, he conquers Draco, and therefore the Elder Wand — hidden in Dumbledore’s tomb at the time — transfers its allegiance to Harry."

    Confused by Potter? Author sets record straight - Wild about Harry - MSNBC.com
    Last edited by Mike'sgirl; 08-03-2007 at 01:15 AM.

  3. #133
    Ms Ambusher dberk's Avatar
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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike'sgirl;2502597;
    Each wand chooses it's master. Remember in the first book when Harry went for his first wand and Ollivander put wand after wand into his hand until the one with the Phoenix feather shot sparks out of the end, thus choosing Harry?

    I think each wizard has a wand that works best for him/her;
    I wondered about that during POA when they played musical wands in the shrieking shake.

  4. #134
    HBK fan nilesgirl's Avatar
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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Maybe this has already been mentioned but I just took a "Deathly Hallows" quiz and one of the questions asked "who's petronus was the silver doe?" The answer was Lilly (according to them) but I'm confused. On page 687, 1/2 way down, we have the following conversation:
    Dumbledore and Snape are speaking in his office about how the death is going to happen. They are speaking about Harry.
    "But this is touching, Severus," said Dumbledore seriously. "Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?"
    "For him?" shouted Snape. "Expecto Petronum!"
    From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe:
    The only other time I saw the doe (or remember seeing the doe) mentioned was when Harry and Hermione were in the forest and he saw the doe and it led him to the lake at the bottom of which was the sword of Griffyndor. So I'm a little baffled. If it's mentioned anywhere that Lilly's petronus was the doe, could you please tell me what page and explain to me how it could be that Snape could release a doe petronus, too. I thought each wizard has his/her own petronus. I've only read the book once so far so maybe I missed something.
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  5. #135
    Wonky snarkmistress Lucy's Avatar
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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Snape's patronus was the doe BECAUSE Lily's was -- it's supposed to show he loved her that much, I guess. It's mentioned in -- I think, I haven't reread the last book yet -- Snape's memory of talking to Dumbledore, which he gives to Harry to look at as he's dying.
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  6. #136
    CCL
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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nilesgirl;2506471;
    Maybe this has already been mentioned but I just took a "Deathly Hallows" quiz and one of the questions asked "who's petronus was the silver doe?" The answer was Lilly (according to them) but I'm confused. On page 687, 1/2 way down, we have the following conversation:
    Dumbledore and Snape are speaking in his office about how the death is going to happen. They are speaking about Harry.
    "But this is touching, Severus," said Dumbledore seriously. "Have you grown to care for the boy, after all?"
    "For him?" shouted Snape. "Expecto Petronum!"
    From the tip of his wand burst the silver doe:
    The only other time I saw the doe (or remember seeing the doe) mentioned was when Harry and Hermione were in the forest and he saw the doe and it led him to the lake at the bottom of which was the sword of Griffyndor. So I'm a little baffled. If it's mentioned anywhere that Lilly's petronus was the doe, could you please tell me what page and explain to me how it could be that Snape could release a doe petronus, too. I thought each wizard has his/her own petronus. I've only read the book once so far so maybe I missed something.
    Further to what Lucy said above:
    Lily's patronus was a doe (which is fitting because the doe is the female version of the stag, which was what James' patronus was, as well as his animagus). I don't believe Lily's patronus was ever mentioned in any of the books but it was meant to be inferred by the Snape/Dumbledore scene that you mention. From that scene we can take it that Snape's patronus was not a doe originally but changed to a doe sometime after Lily's death (We know patronuses can change form since we saw it happen with Tonks' patronus in Half-Blood Prince). That his patronus changed to a doe indicates how much Lily's death had affected him, so much so that it even affected his magic.
    Snape's doe patronus was the one in the forest which showed Harry the way to the sword of Gryffindor.
    Anyhow, since both Snape and Lily had does as their patronuses, it would seem to me that the quiz should accept your answer if you put down Snape.
    I believe witches and wizards can have the same animals as patronuses (otherwise you'd run out of animals!). They probably look differently according to who is casting the spell, however.
    Last edited by CCL; 08-05-2007 at 10:35 PM.
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  7. #137
    HBK fan nilesgirl's Avatar
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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Yeah. I finally found the mention of it. When Harry came back in the chapter titled "Flaw in the plan" and he was trying to get it into Voldemort's thick skull why the Elder Wand wouldn't work for him he mentioned that Snape's petronus was a doe because that what his mother's petronus and Snape loved her nearly all his life since they were children. There's a lot that I read in the book that I can actually really envision on the big screen! Like the final dialogue between Harry and Voldemort and of course the final battle. There are some things I can't really see in the movie however. Like Snape's memories (or at least some of them). In the part of his memory after he shows Dumbledore his petronus and Dumbledore turns to face him again and sees tears, I can't see them showing such a sensitive side to Snape. I think they would want to keep his hard exterior in tact as much as possible. JMHO
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  8. #138
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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nilesgirl;2507135;
    There are some things I can't really see in the movie however. Like Snape's memories (or at least some of them). In the part of his memory after he shows Dumbledore his petronus and Dumbledore turns to face him again and sees tears, I can't see them showing such a sensitive side to Snape. I think they would want to keep his hard exterior in tact as much as possible. JMHO
    I disagree. Snape's memories are an important part of his redemptive arc in Book 7 and, as such, I think they will definitely be a part of the movie version.
    They will have to cut things (of course) but I think they will mainly cut a lot of the camping scenes with Harry, Hermione and Ron.
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  9. #139
    Ms Ambusher dberk's Avatar
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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by nilesgirl;2507135;
    In the part of his memory after he shows Dumbledore his petronus and Dumbledore turns to face him again and sees tears, I can't see them showing such a sensitive side to Snape. I think they would want to keep his hard exterior in tact as much as possible. JMHO
    The let us see his memory of James bullying him at school which really made him a sympathetic character and blackened James' character.

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    Re: The Harry Potter All Spoilers, All the Time Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Arielflies;2488106;
    Teddy Tonks and Bill/Fleur's daughter (his snog partner) are both in the 17-19 year range.
    Thank you so much for saying this. I was so confused at who he was snogging in that moment.

    I just loved the book. As always, once I got my hands on a copy I devoured it. I thought she did an amazing job tying everything together and although i didn't cry (which really surprised me) I got misty and could feel my heart swell during the final battle at Hogwarts and all the witches, wizards, house elves, centours and everyone else who crawled out of the woodwork.
    I always liked Snape and knew in my heart of hearts he would redeem himself. I guess no redemption is really neccessary because he never really betrayed the OOTP.

    My only issue, like so many other have stated, was the epilogue....It could have/should have been much more. We have invested how much time, emotion (not to mention money) on these charecters and not just Ron, Hermione and Harry. I wanted, no needed more information on the impacts of the final showdown in the wizarding world. There was so much leading up to the death of Voldy, I felt more respect needed to be paid to the fallout. I am pleased Harry has a normal life, that IS what he always wanted, but what about the others......how did George carry on without Fred.....what happened to Lovely Luna.....and the other members of DA......

    Perhaps I just don't want to let go. Maybe she purposfuly left many open ends to avoide painting herself in a corner. But to me, there were far to few pages between Voldemort's death and "They all lived happily ever after"

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