The Da Vinci Code

[MasterOfPuppets]

I'm not saying that's an argument that can be held up in court... OBVIOUSLY they can't successfully use that argument..

all I'm saying, is that's the reason I'm personally finding it so hard to believe that he plagiarised

[SnowflakeGirl]

Yes, Zaius! I mean, that's why I'm so adamant about arguing for this. I normally wouldn't care enough to debate about it so vehemently in a message board thread, because, come on, I want to get back to making fun of the stupid reality tv people. But if you really look at the details of both books, you would see how compelling the case is for plagiarism. It's not just because they explore similar themes, it is that there are some IDENTICAL parallels, the above being only a partial example.

[SnowflakeGirl]

I'm not saying that's an argument that can be held up in court... OBVIOUSLY they can't successfully use that argument..

all I'm saying, is that's the reason I'm personally finding it so hard to believe that he plagiarised

Well, I can understand it being hard to believe, because the book is so popular, the notion that's plagiarized seems outrageous.

I feel the same way about an obscure German short story that predates Nabokov's Lolita--now, Vladimir Nabokov is one of my FAVORITE writers of all-time, but recently they have discovered a little-known short story about an older man who falls in love/becomes obsessed with a young girl named...LOLITA! The story, incidentally, was published around the time Nabokov was actually in Germany.

I don't want to believe one of my favorite writers in the entire world is a plagiarist, but what am I to make of this discovery? Some experts are saying, maybe Nabokov read it once, internalized it subconsciously, then years later took these ideas and wrote his book without intentionally stealing the source material. I think this is the case with George Harrison too (BTW "My Sweet Lord" was no "low-profile album cut" as you claim. The song was the first #1 single (in the UK and USA) by a former Beatle after the band split in 1970).

But that doesn't mean that the lesser known works should be completely disregarded, simply for not having been as well-known, like Perdue's books. It's just about giving credit where it's due.

[MasterOfPuppets]

(BTW "My Sweet Lord" was no "low-profile album cut" as you claim. The song was the first #1 single (in the UK and USA) by a former Beatle after the band split in 1970).
.

oh, haha... was it? my bad.. I was just thinking Beatles and that song didn't jump out at me

One thing I do believe could be possible, is the whole 'subconcious plagiarism' thing... and because it's actually happened to me... but that's a long story :p and something that is entirely possible

[RBmumsie]

Something similar happened to Helen Keller, where she unintentionally plagarized one of Robert Frost's essays. She didn't even realize that she was recreating something that had been read to her several years earlier.

However, I don't buy the unintentional plagarism here.

[eny]

Believe me, I've just finished reading Perdue and the parallels extend to plot points, story structure, characterization. That, in combination with a similar aggregation of factual foundation, is the basis of the copyright infringement here.

Ah, that's quite different than just a retell of the old Grail , Templar , Isis stories. Supposedly the Potter books were plagerized too , but I don't know what came of that lawsuit.

[dawg]

Now that ASS is over, I decided to explore FORT and find out what else was here ... hmmmmmm ... interesting ... a thread for books and readers. And what's this ??? ... a thread for TDVC.

Several months ago a friend recommended this book because I was so interested when she suggested Holy Blood, Holy Grail a few years ago. When I bought TDVC a couple months ago I noticed A&D and bought and read it first. Then life got busy, so I didn't get around to reading TDVC until I saw this thread. Now that I'm finished the book I notice this thread has become a debate on plagerism - at this moment I tend to agree with snowflakegirl.

As I read the book the storyline became very familiar - a duplicate of A&D. I wondered if Brown was writing a book about the Holy Grail using a murder mystery as a vehicle, or writing a murder mystery with the Holy Grail as the theme. As far as the story goes, it is quite familiar. I tend to agree with eny.

I finally just finished reading this. I have known most of this stuff for years , as I had studied the Tarot for a long time . The symbology tells the same story. John Rohmer (?) did a live broadcast from the basement of Rosslyn a couple of years ago re the "grail" . Thomas Jefferson , and Washington were also rumored to be heads of the same group. It's all stuff that's been kicked around.( look at the back of your dollar bill)
From my perspective, I don't think that Brown set out to tell us anything new or "steal" anything . He just wanted to write a story. Above all , it's a novel not a factual account . You can't get in any trouble for that.

http://www.rosslynchapel.org.uk/history/history-pt1.htm

I have not been a student of the Tarot, but am somewhat familiar - Joseph Campbell has a good book on it.

As I mentioned earlier, I have read Holy Blood, Holy Grail and found it very fascinating. The ideas are not those of Baigent etal., because they quote countless sources and have compiled all the research into a book. It read more like a textbook than a novel to me. IMO the controversy over HBHG was because of the last 3 chapters - they give an alternate to the Christ Story. I suggest that you read the last 3 chapters if you want to challenge your understanding of the Christ Story.

Personally, I found TDVC an interesting read, but not at all enlightening. I see Ron Howard is going to do the film, and normally I would see one of his films, but I'll pass on this one.

[dawg]

Symbolism

There are so many things in life that can be seen in more than one way. There is the obvious, literal expression in any symbol, and then there is usually a hidden, deeper meaning.

For example - a church. As TDVC mentioned the doorway to an old church looked like the female genitals. Take that a couple more steps. The lobby then becomes the birth canal, and the cathedral becomes the womb. In old churches the wombs/cathedrals there were many symbols that could be viewed, studied and contemplated on. Symbols are food more for the subconscious mind than the conscious mind. Then there were many rituals performed in churches, again symbols. When a church service was done, the people would emerge from the womb, through the birth canal and reborn to the world.

This idea of rebirth is also symbolized in the snake shedding its skin, in the moon disappearing ( new moon ) and reappearing.

Nowadays, people go to church to visit with a like minded community. They chat in the lobby, and in the cathedral, and are oblivious to the real meaning of being there. The churches are barren of symbols. The purpose of todays church is to be lead. The preacher, pastor, minister, or whatever tells them to have faith ( that the leader is the servant of God ), to be obedient ( to them because they are the servants of God ), and to be generous when the offering plate comes around.

The fastest growing churches are those that require the most obedience. Thats because the followers want to be lead - they see themselves as sheep. ( The shepherd left the flock of 99 to seek and find the 1 sheep that was lost - see, being a sheep is a desirable thing to some people ).

TDVC is gnostic in the way it ended. Obviously the author could not tell the whole Holy Grail story because it remains a mystery. The gnostic way is that you have to seek and find the answer yourself, and you find it in your studies, contemplations and meditations - it cannot be told to you by another person. They can only tell you their story, not your story.

TDVC also reminded me of a Buddhist philosophy - after enlightenment,... chop wood, carry water. Or today - after enlightenment, do laundry.

That enlightenment can never be taken away, and that person will seek it for the rest of his/her life - thats the story of The Fisher King. For others, idea that enlightenment is possible is a reason to embark on the journey.

Go in peace.

[saltyj]

I finally decided to read this book. I wasn't going to touch it at first, because I hadn't heard enough about it to know it was a mystery. I thought it was a textbook, and I'd had enough of that at school.

I picked up the book at the library a few days ago and read it. I really enjoyed it (and I'm a devout Catholic). I didn't agree with his whole argument about Mary Magdalene and Jesus, but I really enjoyed reading more into "the other side of history." I thought the book was very well written, but I didn't enjoy the end. I'm probably going to read Angels & Demons now...

[PJinNH]

My husband and I just got through listening to the audio book CD's of this novel. We were intrigued through the entire story. I look forward to reading more of Dan Brown's novels.