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Thread: English Corner

  1. #81
    Smiling again... Zhora's Avatar
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    I don't think "flustrated" is regional. I've heard it quite a few times. In fact, one of the ladies on Fear Factor said it just within the last week or two. (Can you tell it bugs me too?)

    When I was a little kid my mom used to say "libary" instead of "library". I used to correct her so often that she finally developed a hang-up about using the word and would deeply overemphasize the first "r" sound.

  2. #82
    Reformed Perfectionist G.G.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modesty

    Seems to me like "as per" is perfectly acceptable albeit a bit "unnecessary", and "per" is indeed the latin "per" as I thought - not an abbreviation of pursuant.
    I can appreciate the viewpoints you presented; however, "pursuant to" and "per" when used in the context of responding to a request, especially in business writing, mean the same thing - according to or in accordance with. I was incorrect in saying that "per" is an abbreviation for "pursuant to". I would have been more correct to say they can be interchangeable.

    As a fan of Strunk's "Element of Style" and more specifically his views on concise writing, I still feel strongly that "as per" is incorrect, with "as" being superfluous when "per" will suffice. Grammatically, I can find no value it adds nor any explanation why it should be included.

    That said, I'm impressed that you went to such extent to research the phrase.

    This thread is getting awfully serious - can't we just make fun of people who say "can you borrow me some money" or "can you learn me how to do that"?

  3. #83
    RESIDENT JEDI MASTER Stargazer's Avatar
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    One that used to drive me crazy was 'chimney'. Why do people want to pronounce it 'Chim-ley'? There isn't an 'l' in the entire word!
    "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."- Yoda

    "I'll just see where Providence takes me and try to look like I got there confidently." - Craig Ferguson

  4. #84
    Leo
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    Question about possessive nouns here. I've always thought that when a noun ends in "s", you just add an apostrophe (i.e., Davis becomes Davis'). Yet lately I've seen that rule seemingly being dropped and an apostrophe+s combination being used (Davis's). Which is correct?

  5. #85
    Reformed Perfectionist G.G.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo
    Question about possessive nouns here. I've always thought that when a noun ends in "s", you just add an apostrophe (i.e., Davis becomes Davis'). Yet lately I've seen that rule seemingly being dropped and an apostrophe+s combination being used (Davis's). Which is correct?
    William Strunk's "Element of Styles" recommends adding the 's...and most resources that I've used suggest that as long as you are consistent every time, both ways are correct.

    The "rules" (or suggested rules) get a little dicey when it comes to family names. If the name ends in a hard "z" sound, you wouldn't add the apostrophe (Chambers would be Chambers') and the example you give above would be Davises'.

    Weird huh?

    Obviously this doesn't cover every scenario...lol...this IS the English language we're talking about. Some words ending in "s" or "z" just sound klunky if you add an 's - in that case it's better to just add the apostrophe or find another way to word the sentence to avoid the possessive.
    Last edited by G.G.; 10-09-2003 at 02:08 AM.

  6. #86
    Courtesy and Goodwill Mantenna's Avatar
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    Leo and GG:

    The rules are indeed changing concerning grammar usage. Newer reference books recommend adding an apostrophe and an "s" to words that do not end in "s." (girl's, Fort's, Leo's, etc.) For words ending in an "s," add only an apostrophe at the end of the word. However, in report/research writing, all singular proper nouns, including the names of persons and places, form their possessive case by adding an apostrophe and "s." (Mars's, Kansas's, Dickens's, Davis's, etc.

    GG, I am not discounting what you have said; some of my mum's older books say exactly what you wrote. Alas, grammar rules keep evolving. Just when you think you know something, the rules change. The bottom line to the question, though, is that either form is acceptable in general writing.

  7. #87
    FORT Fogey nausicaa's Avatar
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    Aaarghh!! *head explodes*

    I say we get rid of grammar, spelling, and punctuation - the whole shebang! - and start glorying in our dangling modifiers and run-on sentences. :wink We'd be much happier for it.

    BTW, agree w/ Mantenna about possessive "s". The Canadian AP stylebook (used by journalists) state that an apostrophe and an "s" must be added for all singular proper nouns.

    Mantenna, you sound like you have a career in linguistics or semiotics ahead of you.

  8. #88
    Princess
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    Obviously this doesn't cover every scenario...lol...this IS the English language we're talking about.
    Well, that might be another reason for confusion. Most people here speak American English, then some speak Canadian English, and then some speak British English (and perhaps a few more?). I would assume that all languages have slightly different grammatical (not to speak spelling and pronounciation!) rules/recommendations, and that they develop independently.

  9. #89
    Retired! hepcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantenna
    Leo and GG:

    The rules are indeed changing concerning grammar usage. Newer reference books recommend adding an apostrophe and an "s" to words that do not end in "s." (girl's, Fort's, Leo's, etc.) For words ending in an "s," add only an apostrophe at the end of the word. However, in report/research writing, all singular proper nouns, including the names of persons and places, form their possessive case by adding an apostrophe and "s." (Mars's, Kansas's, Dickens's, Davis's, etc.
    My husband (a linguist for you young kids considering careers) designs text-to-speech systems & speech recognition. His company does a lot with phone listings and the apostrophes always end up confusing the computer.

    For example, someone listed their company as "James' Deli". The speech synthesizer pronounced it James Deli. Okay, that's not right. They added an 's at the end, James's Deli. Now the synthesizer says "Jam-Ass Deli".

    If a computer can't get it right, what chance do we have?
    You've gotta hustle if you want to earn a dollar. - Boston Rob

  10. #90
    Premium Member Bumpkin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer401
    I guess its the little bit of bumpkin coming out in me.
    Hey! As if that's a *bad* thing! giggle

    An observation and a question.

    I had the AP stylebook crammed down my throat in a rather memorable way. One of the things that sticks out (and now annoys me to no end) is references to the "First Annual ... " anything. Fun Run. Barbeque.. whatever.

    Proper usage is Inaugural [Event] and thereafter it can be the 2nd annual ... etc. There is no such thing as the First Annual anything.

    Question. My uncle (who was formerly the editor of a major-market newspaper) read some of my professional writing once, and was quite complimentary .. with the notation that "you do have a tendancy to split infinitives .. "

    I have no idea what that means. I have tried to look it up, but when I read the description my eyes blur. All I get out of it is this is one of those grammar rules that is now being considered somewhat archaic .. Still, in the event my work (or resume'!) is being read by someone with a penchant for grammar .. i don't want to make the error if I can avoid it.

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